Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Genesis 3:1-7 | Genesis | Reformer Joe | 26095 | ||
Paul: Okay...I am going to ask as plainly as possible: Was the line from Adam to Christ a sinless one? Yes or no? That is what I want to know. I did not take Branham out of context. He obviously believed in evolution (he even refers to the serpent as a "missing link"). He insists that Satan is the father of Cain, despite the fact that Gensis 4:1 says that he is the result of sexual intercourse between Adam and Eve. Countless times Branham invents new meanings for words with completely different deninitions (e.g. "beguiled" meaning seduction). In addition, anyone who reads the Bible in its entirety will not find a single reference stating that Cain is Satan's son. Not one. The verses you have cited to support thsi false teaching have absolutely nothing to do with Cain and can be clearly shown to be non-supportive based on their context. In other words, putting aside Branham and reading the Bible, NO ONE would come to the conclusions that Branham did. So we return to the age-old deception of believing that the Bible needs a human interpreter to tell us what the "hidden meaning" behind the text is. One must reject the clear rendering of Scripture in order to embrace Branhamism. In addition, the teachings of Branham regarding the serpent's seed has NEVER been held in the total of church history. Such an "important doctrine" was not taught by the apostles, nor by anyone in church history until Branham. No trace of it at all. So either our sovereign God let His truth disappear for until the 1940s, or Branham is wrong. Seriously, Paul, take a step back and evaluate that. Literally thousands of years went by, with this "revelation" hidden. The Bible doesn't mention it directly, and even apparently denies it, based on the verses I already cited. Only those who follow Branham hold to this strange doctrine, and do so in the face of the weight of history and the Biblical narrative and the complete SILENCE of Scripture on this doctrine. I don't need to pray whether Branham was right any more than I need to pray whether the Book of Mormon is true. God has already plainly revealed that he is not. --Joe! |
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2 | Genesis 3:1-7 | Genesis | Paulfromnys | 26102 | ||
No the line was not sinless, only Jesus is that. Bill Branham is as far from embracing evolution as you can get. Genesis 4:1 says Eve said that we have a man from the Lord, and is silent regarding Abel. 1Jo 3:12 Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. It's interesting to consider how such a life could be manifested immediately after the fall. Joe:---So we return to the age-old deception of believing that the Bible needs a human interpreter to tell us what the "hidden meaning" behind the text is. Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. Joe----One must reject the clear rendering of Scripture in order to embrace Branhamism. In addition, the teachings of Branham regarding the serpent's seed has NEVER been held in the total of church history. Such an "important doctrine" was not taught by the apostles, nor by anyone in church history until Branham. No trace of it at all. So either our sovereign God let His truth disappear for until the 1940s, or Branham is wrong. ------- You've picked a point unacceptable to your thinking, and disqualified a powerful ministry based on this. This is what many of Jesus disciples did when He spoke of eating His flesh, and drinking His blood. I think we need to let this go, so this will be my last reply for the time being. Joe:---Seriously, Paul, take a step back and evaluate that. Literally thousands of years went by, with this "revelation" hidden. The Bible doesn't mention it directly, and even apparently denies it, based on the verses I already cited. Only those who follow Branham hold to this strange doctrine, and do so in the face of the weight of history and the Biblical narrative and the complete SILENCE of Scripture on this doctrine. --------------------------------- I don't need to pray whether Branham was right any more than I need to pray whether the Book of Mormon is true. God has already plainly revealed that he is not.--------------------------------- I'm very serious about these things, and I do leave them with GOD for final clarity. I'm also very serious when I exort you to do the same. Yours in Christ, Paul |
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3 | Genesis 3:1-7 | Genesis | Reformer Joe | 26163 | ||
You wrote: "Genesis 4:1 says Eve said that we have a man from the Lord, and is silent regarding Abel." The Bible says: "Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, 'I have gotten a manchild with the help of the LORD.'" --Genesis 4:1 Let's look again at that first clause: "the man had relations with his wife Eve." Adam had sex with Eve. Then what? "and she conceived." I would hate to have to try and draw a diagram on here, but sex with Adam led to the conception of a child in verse 1. Who was that child? "and gave birth to Cain..." Easy as 1-2-3. You would have to be pretty ignorant of reproductive anatomy to miss the domino effect here. We already discussed 1 John 3:12. We were ALL of the wicked one until God called those whom he elected to justification and adoption. Cain's and Abel's spiritual differences cannot be attributed to genetics. It is nonsense, completely unsupported by Scripture. How does Branhamism account for two brothers of the same parents in today's world, one a Christian and one not? Or a Christian child of two parents who are not? It is failure to take responsibility for our own personaly depravity, our own treasonous rebellion against a holy God. God does not save us based on our own physical relationship to Satan: "He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will" --Ephesians 1:5 Those of us who are God's children are ADOPTED, not natural children of Him. This is a spiritual relationship of Fatherhood and sonship, for we were all "children of wrath" before conversion (Ephesians 2:3). And why did God adopt us from Satan's "family" into ours? It was "according to the kind intention of His will," not because of our genetic link to him in some crazy way. You quoted me and added: Joe:---So we return to the age-old deception of believing that the Bible needs a human interpreter to tell us what the "hidden meaning" behind the text is. Amo 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets." Let's look at that verse in context: "Surely the Lord GOD does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets. A lion has roared! Who will not fear? The Lord GOD has spoken! Who can but prophesy? Proclaim on the citadels in Ashdod and on the citadels in the land of Egypt and say, "Assemble yourselves on the mountains of Samaria and see the great tumults within her and the oppressions in her midst." --Amos 3:7-9 1. Amos was God's tool for revelation in an era prior to the completion of Scripture. Hence his revelation being INCLUDED in Scripture. Branham was a so-called "prophet" after the Bible had been completed, which would imply that God's revelation in the Bible was somehow incomplete. This is not so: "But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived. You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work." --2 Timothy 3:13-17 Where is truth to be found? How can we avoid spiritual deception? By listening to Branham twist the Scriptures and deny plain truths? No, but by knowing "the sacred writings." Therefore, Amos was an Old Testament prophet used by God to reveal his truth in a time before the fulness of His truth would be revealed in one individual: "God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world." After the prophets, there was the culmination: Christ. 2. The revelation that God gave Amos was not contradictory of the revelation that had preceded it. Branham's "revelation" starts with Chapter 2 of the entire Bible and starts messing up there. Branham is a false prophet because he denies the very words that God has already plainly revealed to us through his REAL prophets in the Old Testament, and twists the truths revealed by the inspired writers of the New Testament. --Joe! |
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4 | Genesis 3:1-7 | Genesis | Paulfromnys | 26337 | ||
OK Joe, it's a given that the apparent reading of the scripture favors a rejection of what I'm seeing. What I'm saying is that Genesis 4:1a applies to Abel, and Eve wrongly ascribes it to the Lord. I'm seeing two children in the womb from seperate impregnations, and Genesis 4:1,2 does not disallow that. I can sense your anger, and frustration at this, but all I can do is commend you for your patience, and re-iterate that I'm considering a real understanding which I hold to, and which does not by any means live or die in the rending of this verse. Joe:--We already discussed 1 John 3:12. Paul:-- Sorry, but sometimes it takes a couple of passes to get these things into focus. Joe:-- We were ALL of the wicked one until God called those whom he elected to justification and adoption. Paul:-- Not "of" the wicked one, which Cain is shown as here as in distinction to Abel, but rather in boundage to, deceived by, willfully following, whatever, but NOT OF. I think here you find yourself on the wrong side of a logical reading of the verse. Joe:---Cain's and Abel's spiritual differences cannot be attributed to genetics. Paul:-- the appearance of these things into a creation of GOD inhabited by a spiritual son can be. Joe:--- It is nonsense, completely unsupported by Scripture. How does Branhamism account for two brothers of the same parents in today's world, one a Christian and one not? Paul:--- It's clear that we're all a mixture in our flesh, and that we're called by faith to live through our spirits in believing GOD for the revelation of His Son there by faith. Joe:--- It is failure to take responsibility for our own personaly depravity, our own treasonous rebellion against a holy God. Paul:--- No it calls sons of GOD to declare their heritage in the only possible way-in the person of GOD. We are to recognize and acknowledge the personal depravity which we expressed in taking the headship of our GOD given lives. We are to change our minds, and take our lives as sons formed under the headship of GOD through the attonement, and in the person of our Lord Jesus Christ. Joe:--- "He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will" --Ephesians 1:5 Paul:--- This was true before any of the things we are looking at. Joe:---Those of us who are God's children are ADOPTED, not natural children of Him. Paul:--- Thats right, if we were not REDEEMED into GODS expressed life(Jesus) we'll inherit the judgement of GOD as to our love of the deeds of our sensual life. Our flesh is hoplessly bound to the devil: why?? Our spirits are willing: why?? Joe:-- This is a spiritual relationship of Fatherhood and sonship, for we were all "children of wrath" before conversion (Ephesians 2:3). Paul:--- because of the corruption of our souls by the flesh(Romans 8:13). Joe:---And why did God adopt us from Satan's "family" into ours? It was "according to the kind intention of His will," not because of our genetic link to him in some crazy way. Paul:--- He adopted(brought to sonship) us because this is what we were created for in His love. He allowed Romans 8:20 to fulfill Romans 11:32 and bring us though our desire(formed by GODS desire twords us, revealed) to Himself. Paul:---In regards to your response to Amos 3:6; we receive whatever GOD sends us in His wisdom in conforming us to sons in Christ. Teaching, exorting, pastoring, prophesying do not cease in Christ, but rather are received PERFECTLY in our Lord, the very thing we could not do with GODS wisdom twords us. The "voice"(prophet) of Revelation 10:7 brings GODS word to clarity before GODS people, who perfectly receive it, because Christ is now their life(Romans 8:9). Your last paragraph is an opinion, and I don't regard the person of man to state such things as fact, again shutting out any input GOD may initiate. Your in Christ, Paul |
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5 | Genesis 3:1-7 | Genesis | Reformer Joe | 26349 | ||
I am not angry nor frustrated, Paul...just right. :) It is complete nonsense to think that the first clause of Genesis is talking about Abel, and the second talking about Cain. Step back for a minute and take a long, hard look at what you are saying. Does that make any sense at all?? I have said my piece. Cling to the false prophet if you will. i will stick to the plain rendering of God's holy Word. "Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned." --Titus 3:10-11 --Joe! |
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6 | Genesis 3:1-7 | Genesis | Paulfromnys | 26384 | ||
OK Joe, Good try, and I do appreciate the effort, and the spirit it was given in. I think we'll agree that GOD bleess us all in our desire to know, serve, and please Him. That GOD conform us to the likeness of His Son(true blessing). And agreeing here we'll leave off. Your brother in Christ, Paul |
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