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NASB | 1 Timothy 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | 1 Timothy 2:12 I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet [in the congregation]. |
Subject: difference in trinity and oneness |
Bible Note: To answer: 1. So what? It is irrelevant. 2. Sure it does, Not in a single verse, but doctrines built on single verses often are easily debunked. The Bible does teach the Trinity, and that all three persons are distinct but fully the one God. 3. Agreed. Not a point of contention between Trinitarians and modalists. 4. How do you get that from Matthew 28:19? Assumption on your part. In addition, I find that a God who defines himself in relation to humanity as not very sovereign. 5. 1 John 5:7 is a later addition, as any Greek NT scholar worth his salt will tell you. It simply doesn;t appear in the earliest manuscripts, which is why you will only find it in the KJV. 6. No argument. ONE God. 7. Certainly it can be apprehended. Trinitarians do it quite well. 8. Again, agreed. You DO know where Trinitarians agree with you, don't you? 9. I discussed this at length in another post in this thred. In the context of John 14-17, saying that Jesus is claiming to actually BE the Father or the Spirit is completely illogical. (see verses 4:14,16,23,24,26, and on and on...Jesus clearly points out that the Father, Spirit not only do different things -- another point where Oness and Trinitarians agree -- but that they COMMUNICATE and INTERACT with one another. Does Jesus have multiple personalities then?) 10. Sure it does. Se my answer to point 2. 11. Not a point of disagreement. All the fulness of the Godhead dwells in Christ bodily. The Godhead is also expressed fully in the Father and the Spirit. This is Trinitarian. 12. Irelevant to your case (the part about it being hidden -- so what?), but the Father is delivering everything to the Son. You contend that Jesus is delivering everything to Himself? 13. God is God, regardless of His relationship to humanity. How humanistic and heretical to say that Jesus redefines himself to human beings! 14. Again, not a point of disagreement for Trinitarians. Maybe I should use a code word to abbreviate this repetitive answer. 15. Now HERE is a valid point for more extended discussion. Why don't we separate these two verses into another post and discuss these in greater detail, as this is the first point that at first glance would seem to support Oneness... 16. Both of these verses testify to ONE God. No argument from Trinitarians. However, how does one fit John 1:1-3 into a modalistic viewpoint (particularly that nagging "the Word was with God" part)? 17. You already said that. I agree. 18. See #17. 19. See #18. 20. "Some" do it? Is that your argument? In any case, as you have said, the Bible doesn't number them. The numbers do not indicate any ontological difference among the three Persons. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega. No argument. He is God. 21. See #20. 22. See #17. Not anti-Trinitarian. 23. Same reason he does in Revelation 20. Not anti-Trinitarian. Jesus is the God of the Old Testament incarnate. Just not the Father. 24. So? God should be worshiped instead of Satan. What is the point? 25. Neither do I. 26. See #17. 27. See #17. 28. See #17. 29. See #17. 30. See #17. 31. See #17. 32. Guess you concede point 32. ;) 33. See #17. 34. See #17. 35. See #17. 36. See #17. 37. See #17. 38. Ditto. 39. Very poor exegesis here. By the way, I know a few Jehovah's Witnesses who would be happy to agree with you on this verse but say that that name is NOT "Jesus." 40. Okay. 41. See #32. 42. Okay...this is REALLY getting old. If you are going to attack the clearly Biblical doctrine of the Trinity, PLEASE take the time to understand what you are railing against, because most of what you have done here is to attack the "Straw Man" version of it that the UPCI or whatever group you belong to has fed you. There is an excellent work out there called _Oneness Pentecostals and the TRinity_ by Gregory Boyd. I invite you to read it and refute it. Then I would find your much more persuasive than you have been with this non-attack. 44, 45...You know what I am going to say here. 46. See #2. Oh, and #17. And #43. Okay. Please understand one thing. Trinitarians do NOT believe in THREE GODS. We BELIEVE in one GOD, eternally existing in THREE PERSONS, not eternally existing in one person who switches from mode to mode in order to relate to humanity in different ways. Another great work is _The Forgotten Trinity_ by James R. White. When I speak out against Oneness, whether you disagree with me or not, at least I KNOW where we differ and will not spend an inordinate amount of time making assertions that will be fully accepted by both of us. PLEASE, PLEASE do not embarass yourself by arguing against things that I would also argue against as a Trinitarian! One point out of 46 (or 44 actually) which carries any weight worth debating! --Joe! |