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NASB | 2 Corinthians 13:5 ¶ Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you--unless indeed you fail the test? |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | 2 Corinthians 13:5 ¶ Test and evaluate yourselves to see whether you are in the faith and living your lives as [committed] believers. Examine yourselves [not me]! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves [by an ongoing experience] that Jesus Christ is in you--unless indeed you fail the test and are rejected as counterfeit? |
Subject: Difference backsliden or not saved? |
Bible Note: Hi Doc, You wrote: "Now, when we speak of the saints in the Old Testament, we may rightful speak of their salvation; i.e., that they are regenerate. That does not mean,however, that the experiential [note: that is a theological term, not the Charismatic term] aspect of their regeneration was the same as believers today." When I refer to regeneration, I am refering to the act of God creating in us a new creation: 2Co 5:17 So that if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new! I base this on the meaning of the word paliggenesia, as found in: Tit 3:5 "not by works in righteousness which we had done, but according to His mercy, He saved us through the washing of regeneration (paliggenesia) and renewal of the Holy Spirit," paliggenesia comes from "palin" - again, and "genesis" - generation, to become, i.e. birth. So regeneration is re-birth, and results in us being a new creation. Peter echos this in: 1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, He according to His great mercy having regenerated (from anagennaw - again begotten) us to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," And so it is through the resurrection of Jesus that a work is done in the believer, which is to re-create them as a new creation. As Jesus is risen into a new life, so are we. Of this person it is written: Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I live; yet no longer I, but Christ lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh, I live by faith toward the Son of God, the One loving me and giving Himself over on my behalf. So Biblically, regeneration is when the life of Christ is created in a person, and that person is now a new creation. Would you agree or disagree? If you disagree, then this would be the root of our difference on this, in my opinion. We are using the word in different ways. If you agree, are you then saying that this is what happened to people in the Old Testament times? Regarding the passages you mentioned in Ezekiel and Jeremiah: Eze 11:17 So the Lord Jehovah says this: I shall gather you from the peoples, and assemble you out of the lands, in those where you were scattered, and I shall give to you the land of Israel. Eze 11:18 And they will come there, and they will remove all its hateful things and all its abominations from it. Eze 11:19 And I shall give to them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. And I will remove the stony heart out of their flesh, and I will give them a heart of flesh, Eze 11:20 so that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments, and do them. And they shall be to Me for a people, and I will be to them for God. This passage says that this is something God will do after regathering Israel. Eze 36:24 For I will take you from the nations and gather you out of all the lands and bring you into your land. Eze 36:25 Then I will sprinkle clean waters on you, and you shall be clean. I will cleanse you from all your defilement and from all your idols. Eze 36:26 And I will also give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. And I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give to you a heart of flesh. Eze 36:27 And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you shall keep My judgments and do them. Eze 36:28 And you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers. And you shall be a people to Me, and I will be God to you. This passage says essentially the same thing. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, says Jehovah, that I will cut a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, Jer 31:32 not according to the covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt (which covenant of Mine they broke, although I was a husband to them, says Jehovah). Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will cut with the house of Israel: After those days, declares Jehovah, I will put My Law in their inward parts, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. This passage tells us that in a time yet to come God will institute a new covenant, and it will be after that that God will "write His law on their hearts". This naturally leads us to Jesus at the Last Supper, instituting the New Covenant. Are you asserting that these passages are not in fact prophetic of a future time? Doesn't the quote from Carroll disagree with your previous post? If I recall, you have said that repentance follows regeneration, while Carroll states that rebirth is contingent on repentance. This leads me to again wonder if perhaps you understand regeneration to be something other than rebirth. Love in Christ, mark |