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NASB | Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOMEVER I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOMEVER I HAVE COMPASSION." [Ex 33:19] |
Subject: Mercy's God's prerogative |
Bible Note: Tim: You wrote: "1) The thurst of the quotes about Jacob, Esau, and Pharoah, all have to do with God's sovereign right to use them in anyway He sees fit, since He is the potter. However, it never says anything about their individual salvation. In fact, all of the quotes about Jacob and Esau all refer to the nations involved." Well, the question raised was not about individual salvation, but whether God is required by His very nature to show mercy to all. In the case of Pharaoh, we are definitely talking about an individual who was not the object of God's mercy. And even if Paul intends his references to Jacob and Esau to refer to the Israelites and the Edomites (which is not a point I concede), these nations are still made up of individuals, so we still come down to individuals not receiving mercy (i.e. "being hated") from God. "2) Nowhere in chapter 9 does it say that the vessels are locked into the postion that they are in currently. Notice in Ephesians, that Paul says that they were all at one time 'vessels of wrath'. But, God had mercy on them." I think the term "prepared beforehand for destruction" implies exactly that these vessels serve the purpose God intended for them. Ephesians 2 refers to us as "formerly...children of wrath, even as the rest" rather than "vessels of wrath prepared beforehand for destruction." And the big difference is seen in the very next verse: "But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved)" --Ephesians 2:4-5 It is clear that: a) we were all children of wrath b) now we (i.e. believers) are not c) Paul differentiates us from "the rest (i.e. the lost--v.3) d) the difference between the elect (Ephesians 1:4, 11) and the lost is God's rich mercy toward the elect It is not to hard to conclude by this epistle that the elect receive mercy that "the rest," those who will remain "children of wrath" do not receive. You continue: "3) Chapter 9 cannot be understood in isolation from chapter's 10 and 11. Both of these chapters stress that whoever calls will be saved and that even those, in chapter 11, who are not of the elect can be saved if they do not continue in their unbelief." The Reformed position agrees that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. We are not in disagreement there. Where we disagree is that the Calvinist position holds that all those who will truly call on the Lord are precisely the ones that God has predestined, called, and regenerated (and no one else). Chapter 11 does not distinguish the elect from those who will be grafted back in. The ones who will be grafted back in are those whom God will regenerate. When Paul says that the condition is "if they do not continue in their unbelief," that is not contrary to Calvinism, either. If they do not continue in their unbelief, they will be the ones re-grafted and therefore among the elect. "4) Concerning "all Israel", I believe Paul is refering to the Spiritual Israel of 9:1-6 here. He specifically mentions the full number of Gentiles being brought in, and then he says, "Thus, all Israel will be saved." Agreed. --Joe! |