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NASB | Romans 2:14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Romans 2:14 When Gentiles, who do not have the Law [since it was given only to Jews], do instinctively the things the Law requires [guided only by their conscience], they are a law to themselves, though they do not have the Law. |
Subject: Does a person who never hears about Jesu |
Bible Note: Dear Angel, You wrote, "If I get you correctly... no one unless the Gospel is preached to them can get to know God?" Yes, that is correct. No one can know the Father except through the Son. Furthermore, there is no way to please the Father except through the single means of redemption He has provided: the Gospel. There is only one way to God and that is through the way that He has provided, through the Gospel. These are very fundamental Christian doctrines very clearly taught in Scripture. It rather surprises me that you are not conversant with them. We can work our way through the Bible verses if you are really interested. You wrote, "so there's a limitation to God?" I've heard people say this before, and, frankly, it is quite puzzling to me. If God says something, it is so. God defines right, wrong, sin, righteousness, holiness, etc. How does that limit God? What I see in Scripture is that He is completely in charge (Psalms 115:3; 135:6; Job 23:13; Daniel 4:35; Ephesians 1:11). What Scripture says is that God does whatever He wants to do. God does *as* He pleases, exactly *as* He pleases, and *only* as He pleases. God created this universe for His own pleasure. God can save any one that He wants to save. He wouldn't be any less if He chose to save no one. However, very lovingly and mercifully, He has chosen to save some men. He has done so by very specifically articulating *how* that can come about. (Just as He did for Adam and Moses.) How that can possibly limit Him is quite honestly beyond my ability to understand. You wrote, "I mean according to the material presented, a death mute who lives in the wilderness of say Peru, Latin America, will surely die because God is not able to teach his/her spirit about Jesus. (sic)" Note that you chose the word "able." Where has anyone said that "God is not able?" Do you suppose that God is not able to have caused the deaf-mute to be born elsewhere? Do you suppose that God is unable to send missionaries to Peru? Do you suppose that He is not able to drop leaflets from heaven with the Gospel message on all of Peru? Angel! Think BIGGER! There is nothing that He cannot do! Your position is what is called universalism. The Bible does not affirm such a position. You wrote, "The fact is that God's Spirit saves!" Actually, that is not strictly true. Although we have a triune God, each Member of the Trinity have specific work that they do. Now, I have to admit, since they are all One, it seems clear to my human mind that if One of Them does something then All of Them do it. But the problem is that the Bible makes a distinction. If the Bible makes this distinction, then I am constrained to do no less. While it is true that there is "overlap," Jesus is said to be the Savior. It is He Who saves. (Go ahead, try to find a single verse in Scripture where it says the Holy Spirit saves.) In general, from a soteriological viewpoint, the works of the Members of the Trinity are described as follows: The Father chooses, the Son saves, and the Holy Spirit seals. You wrote, "part of our Christian obligation is to pray that the message of Christ is brought to all men (including those instances when some may be ignorant of Christ)." More than that, we are to proclaim the Gospel. However, how can we do that if we state it is something that it is not? Universalism, pluralism, or misrepresentation of the attributes of God do not accomplish these goals. Let us learn to state the Gospel exactly as the Scripture states it -- no more, and no less. Anything else is a very grave sin of presumption. In Him, Doc PS If you would like to respond to any portion of my post, please do so on an individual subject basis (e.g., the exclusivity of Christ, roles of the Members of the Trinity, universalism, etc.). Otherwise we will get too far afield. I see this frequently happen, defeating our ability to deal adequately with any given topic. Per contra, if you are more interested in protecting or promulgating your position than in arriving at truth, I'd just as soon set aside this discussion. Not only would it be a violation of the forum standard in promoting a denominational bias, my family is facing rather a lot right now. I'd just as soon expend my energies more productively in that direction, unless, of course, people really want to wrestle with the Biblical message. Please excuse my impatience, but this whole "God is love and only love" stuff is getting a little old. |