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NASB | John 15:8 "My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | John 15:8 "My Father is glorified and honored by this, when you bear much fruit, and prove yourselves to be My [true] disciples. |
Subject: No Fruit? |
Bible Note: Dear Steve, Yes I think you are misunderstanding me. Starting from the beginning: Steve - you ask an application question using John 15:8 Doc - said before we can answer that we need to look at the context of the verse by looking at chapters 14,15 and 16 and the defination of "fruit". My question is not so much how to answer your application question but what the verse John 15:8 means. I read the 3 chapters and looked up some cross references for fruit, like you my time is limited. I also read Doc's slice it and dice it post. My question is two-fold - what did this verse mean to the 12 disciples? 2) what does it mean for me? When I look at how Jesus interacted with the disciples, He first, number one - called them. He said "follow Me" and to some He said "I will make you fishers of men". So I see He called them first. This was the first step. They laid down what they were doing and followed Him. This to me was a response to that call. Are you with me so far? Then, after this encounter with each of the twelve, Christ began to teach them who He was and what He was all about. Also what He expected from them. Love is very much one of the themes of the book of John as Brother John pointed out. Ok, now to application to me - how am I to obey this verse in my life. I have heard Christ's call to me. I responsed by following Him and all that entails. Now tell me when He said go and make disciples, my question is: Is the fruit He is talking about in 15:8 would the first step not be a call to follow Christ. Do I not go to those around me and say "follow Christ". Depending upon their response, discipleship would follow or begin. This is my point, the disciples were to go and make disciples - bearing fruit. Wouldn't the call come first to the people they are sent to. Call them to follow Jesus. Milk before the meat. I am thinking the first thing I can do to make disciples is to tell them about Jesus - as Paul said I preach nothing but Christ crucified.(death, burial, resurrection) Then they were admonished to walk in the truth that was theirs. Walk in the fruit of the spirit that was theirs because they were born again. I guess thats my point is one has to be born again before they can bear fruit. As for your application question, moving on if we do not bear fruit, I IMHO would apply the verse in this way. Witness to an individual and then if the reponse is negative, move on to another individual. Of course continue to pray for that person but realize that God is still working on them and maybe I should back off until they are ready to hear either from me or someone else. As to ministry - when to move on - prayer I think is the key - everything we do is bathed in prayer - being sensitive to hearing God's answer is key. I know particularly in my area church's are splitting one right after another. Its so sad. I know God can use it but what bothers me is the unchristian like behavior of the leaders and the layman. Do you understand any better what I was asking? Blessings Val |