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NASB | John 13:18 "I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have chosen; but it is that the Scripture may be fulfilled, 'HE WHO EATS MY BREAD HAS LIFTED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST ME.' |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | John 13:18 "I am not speaking of all of you. I know whom I have chosen; but [this has happened] in order that the Scripture may be fulfilled: 'HE WHO EATS MY BREAD HAS RAISED UP HIS HEEL AGAINST ME [as My enemy].' [Ps 41:9] |
Subject: What did Jesus mean? |
Bible Note: Paul, Let me respectfully say that your repetitive argument has become concerning at least to me. In all honestly sir, your not even making sense. It's as though you are attempting to make the Scriptures agree with your fanciful idea. You write: "Going one step further, if Isreal had to fall and be rejected so that 'all Isreal might be saved', did Adam?" I believe it's been pointed out already but let me give it another shot. You seem to be missing the big pitcture. Adam was not created a sinner and was not created "unsaved". Adam enjoyed a perfect relationship with God and was in no need of reconciliation. It was Adam's acting on his own free will in disobedience that put him in a position to be in need of reconciliation. I do not find anything in Scripture that supports that Adam's fall was necessary to perpectuate his salvation. The concept is actually ridiculous. Quite the contrary; the work of Christ was necessary to overcome Adam's disobedience and the impact it had on mankind. Your truly putting the cart before the horse. The only way to make your argument valid is to work from the assumption that God is responsible for sin. As though He desired to save Adam thouogh Adam was not in need of being saved. So God set in motion a plan that would require Adam to sin so that He, God, could then save him. If this is your position, and it appears to be so, where in Scripture do you find support? After you state your argument you really get to the point. "Then everything starts to make sense, does God work through sin and rejection to create Christ in us?" "Then", when you agree with yourself it starts to make sense because it agrees with your belief. Perhaps a play on words, but to be clear, Christ is not created in us. Christ is no creation at all. The Holy Spirit is given to the elect that we might be newly created. And what does that new creation look like? Back to Adam; in His (God's) image. Finally, you come right out and say it when you write: "I find it difficult to explain in words, it is more a spiritual experience, but 'sin' becomes less condemnatory. The first century church seems to have a very relaxed view of sin." My friend, you are finding it difficult to explain because the Scriptures do not agree with you. But you appear to continue to resist that truth in favor of holding to your "spiritual experience". My question to you is, what "spiritual experience" is of God when it can't be explained and supported by Scripture? Think on that friend. And I can not end without addressing your obvious misuse of Scripture. Regarding 1 Tim. 1:10, what do you believe "doctrine" to be. We do not establish Scripture by doctrine, but instead, we rely on Scripture to establish it's own doctrine. Doctrine is not the creation of man, it is the developed understanding of God's word. It is not separate from the Law and whole of God's truth. Finally, Romans 1:28 actually contradicts what you attempt to make it say. Of course, you will need to continue reading beyond the single verse. Sin is much more than an "inconvenience" as you ascert. And the consequence of sin is total rejection in spite of your denial. When we read on we do see this clearly as it results in "Rom 1:29-32 all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 THOUGH THEY KNOW GOD'S DECREE THAT THOSE WHO PRACTICE SUCH THINGS DESERVE TO DIE, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. (ESV) Not even a brief scan of should result in the thought that sin is merely an "inconvenience". It does leave us KNOWING, that the result is "total rejection". Praise be to God that He did not cause nor desire that I sin that He might save me. Praise our Lord and God that He did desire to save me and is able to do so in spite of my sin, not through it. Jeff |