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NASB | Psalm 51:5 ¶ Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | Psalm 51:5 ¶ I was brought forth in [a state of] wickedness; In sin my mother conceived me [and from my beginning I, too, was sinful]. [John 3:6; Rom 5:12; Eph 2:3] |
Subject: When do we become sinners? |
Bible Note: Hey Nolan, let me backup and approach this another way, because we are beginning to confuse issues. Your belief, being from an Arminian perspective, teaches that Christ died for all humans. That humans possess free will, the ability to accept or reject God's offer of Grace, and that election is based totally on God's foreknowledge into the future of those who will accept that gift. Therefore, only those persons who exercise their "free will", by rejecting death and accepting life are saved. So Christ's death only created the possibility of salvation for anyone, that is, anyone who exercises his or her "will" for life. So God does not unconditionally elect anyone to salvation without that person's exercising of their consent to His gift of eternal life. Then we come to the idea of infants and/or incapables, those who as you put it, have not reached an age of accountability, or a state of culpability for their sin nature, thus their inevitable sins. So if they die in that state, you are pronouncing them saved because God now unconditionally elects them to that state of grace, since they can not do it themselves. Or, I guess there is of course the possibility in your system, that God MUST save these infants and incapables because they are without blemish. For God punishes us for our sins. Have you seriously thought about this? Nolan, in all of this, where does Paul's statement in Ephesians 2:8-10 come in? Or what about your own agreement with me on the point that, "anyone in the flesh cannot please God, and we all start out that way". This of course being without doubt a biblical perspective. Nolan, if you believe that God elects infants unconditionally, then you're a Calvinist, which then creates problems with the rest of your system, and if you believe he must save infants because they are sinless, then you really don't agree that we all start out that way, dead in our sins and trespasses unable to even please God. And of course, this would put you in the position of disagreeing with Scripture, which you've already said that you do agree with it. By the way, and you've never asked me, you just started disagreeing with me in pricipal, but I to believe that infants and incapables are saved. Can you guess how? Nolan, I want you to think about one more thing, why did God save Ninevah, 120,000 persons who also did not know their right hand from their left. But in Deuteronomy 20:13-18 we find a different situation, and I quote verse 16, "Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes". Just some food for thought. I pray the Lord is blessing you and yours..., for in Him we live, move, and have our existence--JCP |