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NASB | 2 Samuel 12:11 "Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. |
AMPLIFIED 2015 | 2 Samuel 12:11 "Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will stir up evil against you from your own household; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your companion, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight. |
Subject: Does this mean God is the author of sin? |
Bible Note: Ephesians 1:4 Part 2 2 Samuel 12:11 RWC, in your post of 09-17-2001, 8:27am, you write: 1) "Isaiah 45:6-7 . . . But how do you understand the passage to which this thread is attached (2 Samuel 12:11), and (just as importantly) why do you understand it that way?" The word "sin" in 2 Sam 12:11 is translated as "adversity" in the NKJV. I see this verse in 2 Samuel not as a question of repaying wrong with wrong. Rather, it is God punishing sin. It is never God adding wrong to wrong. Nor does God do wrong when he disciplines His children. Does God not have the authority to chasten those whom He loves and to scourge every son whom He receives (Hebrews 12:6)? God is altogether holy, righteous and just. His judgement is always done with perfect justice. Do we dare accuse God of evil doing? (RWC, I do not say that you yourself accuse God of evil doing. Please take no offense.) Many Scriptures affirm that God is not the author of evil: "God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone" (James 1:13). "God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all" (1 John 1:5). "God is not the author of confusion" (1 Corinthians 14:33)--and if that is true, He cannot in any way be the author of evil. "God devises calamity as a judgment for the wicked. But in no sense is He the author of evil." Calvin wrote: "God is certainly sovereign over evil. . . He planned for it. It did not take Him by surprise." So, we may say, God did not PLAN evil. But He did plan FOR it. Do you see the difference? God planned for evil in the sense that it did not take Him by surprise. "But God's role with regard to evil is never as its author." Quoting Calvin. RWC: You write, "2. You (kalos) wrote: 'God is certainly sovereign over evil. There's a sense in which it is proper even to say that evil is part of His eternal decree.' I am not exactly certain of what you are intending by the use of the words "sovereign" and "decree." But if, as the strongly Calvanist position seems to take, you mean that God has predetermined (ordained, predestined) every detail of history before any of it came to be, than how can He not also be properly called the author (source) of sin?" (The entire quote enclosed in single quotation marks in the preceding paragraph was authored by Calvin, not by me. I know this was not made clear in my former posting. The reason is that the source from which I quoted it did not set it off in quotation marks as belonging to Calvin. If I erred in not attributing the quote to Calvin, it was entirely unintentional.) RWC, your question: "If, as the strongly Calvanist position seems to take, you mean that God has predetermined (ordained, predestined) every detail of history before any of it came to be, than how can He not also be properly called the author (source) of sin?" My reply: Again, the quote by Calvin is one that I am not qualified to explain or defend. I myself do NOT believe "that God has predetermined (ordained, predestined) every detail of history before any of it came to be." Galatians 2:17 RWC: In the thread, "Spurgeon's calvanistic contradiction?", you ask: "How can both of his assertions be true? How could God predetermine (that is, "in eternity past... decree")that "whatever comes to pass in time" (which must therefore included sin, since sin has come to pass in time), "without being author of the sin?" If God decreed that it must exist before before it existed, that would, by definition, make him the author of sin, would it not? " My reply: I believe my post ("I have a problem understanding why,") including the quote by Calvin has adequately answered this question, insofar as I am capable of answering it. If I wrote a post in which I claimed to have more to say about or more knowledge of this subject than either Calvin or John MacArthur, then my own post would qualify for the list of the Top 100 Absurdities. RWC, I have answered your questions to the best of my ability. Again, I thank you for your posts in which you ask me these questions. I am always available to dialogue with one who is as reasonable and courteous as you are. Grace to you, sir. |