Results 81 - 100 of 190
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Results from: Notes Author: zach† Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
81 | O.T. Israel salvation? | John 6:49 | zach† | 35079 | ||
charis; Thank you friend for the well worded reply. The reason I ask some of the questions I do has several reasons. The main reason is to for me to work my way through the various topics that confront me on a daily basis as I spend time in the precious word of God. Concerning the relationship issue which I asked you about, let me briefly post the following and see what thoughts you may have about it. 1. God's love IS unconditional. There is nothing that can separate us from God's love. In fact, God's love was extended to us while we were still sinners...even while we were yet unborn! There is nothing...nothing I can do to make God quit loving me. He can't not love me. His love is both unconditional and irrevocable. And it's not based in any way whatsoever on what I do. God loves because God is love. 2. My relationship with God is conditional. While His love is unconditional, my relationship with God is two-way. Love can be unilateral. A relationship, however, is bilateral. For instance, I could insist that nothing my wife could ever do would change my love-I love her unconditionally and irrevocably, yet a true relationship is two-way. What if she were to walk out on me, and run off with another man, totally rejecting me and everything I stood for? Would I still love her? Yes, I could love her, if my love were unconditional. But would we still have a relationship? That's another question. A relationship is bilateral-"it takes two." Love can go one way, but a relationship is two-way. Relationships are ongoing dynamic sort of things which take two (at least partially) willing persons. Someone might argue that this immoral wife still had some legal standing with her husband, but most of us would admit that a pattern of continual and repeated purposeful acts of rebellion would end the two-way-ness of the relationship. Your thoughts |
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82 | Is there no volition? | John 15:4 | zach† | 35069 | ||
kalos; Just a good Reformed quote to add here. Charles Spurgeon has said "Although we are sure that men are not saved for the sake of their works, yet we are equally sure that no man will be saved without them." Also many whenever they quote from Eph. Chapter 2 rarely include vs. 10 along with verse 8 and 9 Verse 10 says: Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. In Christ zach† |
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83 | Abiding seems to be very important in sc | John 15:4 | zach† | 35068 | ||
dogwood continuing on with John 15:6 in the CEV it is also written; If you don't stay joined to me, you will be thrown away. You will be like dry branches that are gathered up and burned in a fire. In Christ zach† |
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84 | Abiding seems to be very important in sc | John 15:4 | zach† | 35067 | ||
kalos In this reply you posted the quote "nothing is allowed in the life which separates" from Him." So my question would be which things are they which separate us from Him? In Christ zach† |
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85 | Take Your Holy Spirit from me? | Ps 51:11 | zach† | 35066 | ||
kalos Scripture seems to make a difference between the Holy Spirit being "with you" "in you" and "upon you" John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth WITH YOU, and shall be IN YOU. Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come UPON YOU: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. So can we ask for an explanation of the difference? In Christ zach† |
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86 | Rev 3:16 lukewarm | Rev 3:16 | zach† | 35065 | ||
Fountain Thank you for your replys The definition described here makes me wonder if "lukewarm" individuals or churches could also be labeled as hypocrites? Thank you In Christ zach† |
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87 | Rev 3:16 lukewarm | Rev 3:16 | zach† | 35064 | ||
serenetime; Thank you for the response Yes that helps very much Just one comment You stated: "It's like the Christian who lives like the world all during the week, and on Sundays goes to Church and portrays him or herself to serving God fully and completely." That definition sounds like a hypocrite (someone pretending to be something their not) In Christ zach† |
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88 | O.T. Israel salvation? | John 6:49 | zach† | 35059 | ||
charis; Following your questions you sent me in your last response: "So...'Once lost, always lost?'" My answer is yes (see Heb. 6:4-6 NASB) "This would definitely lead back to a question I asked in another thread, "How easy is it to lose your salvation?" As to how hard or how easy it is to loose salvation, scripture to my knowledge only talks about the possibility of losing it. However I'm sure it may differ from one individual to another. "My friend, I have been reading the 'salvation maintenance' posts, and just cannot accept that way of thinking." Thats fine my friend. I'm not trying to win any converts to my particular interpretation of scripture. I merely desire to discuss the various topics with other believers such as yourself. "From what I have heard, we chose to accept Christ on our own initiative, then we must maintain a standard of excellence and perfect repentance in order keep that relationship, and now, we cannot stumble or we lose our salvation, never able to find Christ again. WOW!" Well that is not exactly what I stated in any of my posts, but I can see how it might be possible for us to misunderstand each other. After all we both read the same Bible(s) allowing for different versions. But we all get a different interpretations from the same book. Let me add three quick questions: Are unilateral relationships something that must be maintained? Are they something that requires some effort on the parties involved in that relationship to keep it going? Is a persons involvement in any relationship passive? Scripture as I'm sure you will agree is never in error, rather our understanding is often in error and in need of correcting. Thank you my friend for the response. In Christ zach† |
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89 | Was Israel saved, or not? | John 6:49 | zach† | 35027 | ||
Dear Greg; Excuse me for interupting this discussion,but here is some scripture concerning this topic for your perusal. 1Cor. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. 7 Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. 8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. 1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. 11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. In Christ zach† |
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90 | Does faith require maintenance? | NT general Archive 1 | zach† | 35026 | ||
Galilee; Thank you my friend for the quick response. You made a comment which forces me to ask another question. You stated: "So we may not be "all" that we can be....how? By neglecting NOT rejecting our faith." I ask the following question not because I disagree with your comment, but I had a verse concerning "neglect" that came to mind. Let me post it now: Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; You mentioned "neglecting our faith" The above verse mentions "neglecting salvation" My thoughts are: faith and salvation differ. by grace are ye saved through faith. Eph 2:8 so once grace has come to us, we then are saved, but, salvation is through faith. My question is: If we "neglect faith" are we at the same time "neglecting salvation" also? Nice to meet you also brother Thank you :) In Christ zach† |
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91 | Is Limited Atonement Bibical? | NT general Archive 1 | zach† | 34988 | ||
Benjamite; Because it's late, I will briefly post my thoughts to your questions. you asked; what does it mean to compel Luke 14:23 compel - Greek anagkazo - to compel by entreaties. Certainly those mentioned in Luke 14 were compelled to come to the supper but none were forced to come. concerning verse 44 no man can come except (meaning unless) the Father draw (not drag by force) him. vs, 45 every man that has heard (meaning there was a desire on the individuals heart to hear what was taught.And they are therefore said to be learned. The unlearned turn their ear and have no desire to hear, but instead refuse to hear. vs, 65 alot like vs. 44 be enabled to come is impossible unless one has first be enabled to desire to come. The ability to come must be given by the Father. A W Tozer mentioned the following in his classic book "The Pursuit of God" "Christian theology teaches the doctrine of prevenient grace, which briefly stated means this, that before a man can seek God, God must first have sought the man. Before a sinful man can think a right thought of God, there must have been a work of enlightenment done within him; imperfect it may be, but a true work nonetheless, and the secret cause of all desiring and seeking and praying which may follow. We pursue God because, and only because, He has first put an urge within us that spurs us to the pursuit. "No man can come to me," said our Lord, "except the Father which hath sent me draw him," and it is by this very prevenient drawing that God takes from us every vestige of credit for the act of coming. The impulse to pursue God originates with God, but the outworking of that impulse is our following hard after Him; and all the time we are pursuing Him we are already in His hand: "Thy right hand upholdeth me." In this divine "upholding" and human "following" there is no contradiction. All is of God, for as von Hegel teaches, God is always previous. In practice, however, (that is, where God's previous working meets man's present response) man must pursue God. On our part there must be positive reciprocation if this secret drawing of God is to eventuate in identifiable experience of the Divine. In the warm language of personal feeling this is stated in the Forty-second Psalm: "As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?" This is deep calling unto deep, and the longing heart will understand it." I can go into more detail later if you desire. In Christ zach† |
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92 | Does faith require maintenance? | NT general Archive 1 | zach† | 34983 | ||
Galilee; So if I read you correctly, you believe faith shouldn't be passive, but rather pro-active in each believer. If thats so, then I would say I agree. In Christ zach† |
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93 | Does faith require maintenance? | NT general Archive 1 | zach† | 34981 | ||
Wigglesworth; To your reply I simply say amen :) In Christ zach† |
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94 | Does faith require maintenance? | NT general Archive 1 | zach† | 34972 | ||
Ray; thank you for taking time to reply; If the Holy Spirit cannot be quenched, then why does scripture admonish us: "Quench not the Spirit" 1 Thess. 5:19? In Christ zach† |
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95 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34938 | ||
Joe; Sorry for the delay in replying to you. I posted a reply to Hank in 5 Parts which is actually a reply addressed to you also. I didn't send it to both of you because it is in 5 Parts. I hope you will look at all 5 parts. This will give you more of Spurgeons quotes from that message, plus my comments as to why I disagree with him. In Christ zach† |
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96 | Does faith require maintenance? | NT general Archive 1 | zach† | 34931 | ||
Emmaus Thank you and I will say I agree. And at this time have no further questions. However if you have anything you would like to discuss about what we dicussed drop me a line here in the forum In Christ zach† |
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97 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34930 | ||
Part 5 "Thank thy Lord, then, that he keeps thee." (Spurgeon) Why does Jude 21 warn us to "keep yourselves in the love of God" if the possibility of separation from God's love is impossible? (zach) "thou art being drawn to heaven by a single rope; if that hand which holds thee let thee go, if that rope which grasps thee do but break, thou art dashed on the rocks of damnation. Then, if that be the case, his hand must be severed from his body before my name can be taken from him; and if it be engraven on his heart, his heart must be rent out before they can rend my name out." (Spurgeon) Hold on, then, and trust believer! thou hast "an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, which entereth within the veil." The winds are bellowing, the tempests howling; should the cable slip, or thine anchor break, thou art lost. See those rocks, on which myriads are driving, and thou art wrecked there if grace leave thee; see those depths, in which the skeletons of sailors sleep, and thou art there, if that anchor fail thee. It would be impossible to moor thee again, if once that anchor broke; for other anchor there is none, other salvation there can be none, and if that one fail thee, it is impossible that thou ever shouldst be saved. Therefore thank God that thou hast an anchor that cannot fail, " (Spurgeon) After stating all that, why if what Mr. Spurgeon just stated is true, is there the need to as he says to: "Hold on, then, and trust " didn't he just say a couple of quotes ago : "Thank thy Lord, then, that he keeps thee." ? (zach) Bill Jones is fishing several miles out in the ocean. His boat capsizes and sinks to the bottom. He is unable to swim to safety. Just then another fishing boat comes along, but it is so heavily loaded that it is impossible to take on another passenger. Because they want to rescue the doomed man, however the crew throws him a rope. "Here take this rope," they say. "We will tow you to shore." As he takes the rope, Bill Jones says, "Thank God, I am saved!" And he is saved, as long as he holds on to the rope. Salvation is his, but he has to play a part in it. If he should at any time release his grasp on the rope and refuse to take it again, he would be lost. So it is with a person who has been rescued from sin. He remains saved as long as he holds on to the hand of Christ. If he should decide to release that hand, he would be lost. Actually one can properly speak of salvation in three tenses - past, present, and future. He can say, "I have been saved" when he takes the rope, "I am being saved" as he is being towed to shore; and "I shall be saved" when he plants his feet firmly on shore. Does the fact that the man must cling to the rope to be saved, mean that we can earn our salvation by our works? Absolutely not. Remember he was being towed by a power other than his own. He was merely co-operating with that power. He was holding onto the rope. He had to do that in order to be pulled to safety. We are still free moral agents. Our will has not been removed merely because we have become Christian's (from zach's files) Spurgeon is attributed as having said; "Calvinism is the gospel and nothing else" A statement like this from anyone clearly reveals to me, that this person has exalted the teachings of a man, above the absolute truth of God's word. I think what this person is saying is: whatever is in the Bible that doesn't fit into Calvinism is to be either thrown out, or re-explained to fit Calvinism. (from zach's files) Spurgeon would have done justice to his message from Hebrews if he would have also explained other verses in Hebrews concerning this topic. Verses such as: Heb. 2:1-3; 3:14; 4:1,6,12,14; 10:23,26-31,38; 12:14-15,25 (zach) |
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98 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34929 | ||
Part 4 "And one thought more. There is nothing in Scripture which teaches us that there is any salvation, save the one salvation of Jesus Christ—nothing that tells us of any other power, super-excellent and surpassing the power of the Holy Spirit. These things have already been tried on the man, and yet, according to the supposition, they have failed, for he has fallen away......: that if grace be ineffectual, if grace does not keep a man, then there is nothing left but that he must be damned. " (Spurgeon) If we fall from the faith, it doesn't reflect negatively upon God's faithfulness, but rather on our unfaithfulness (zach) "If Christians can fall away, and cease to be Christians, they cannot be renewed again to repentance. "But," says one, "You say they cannot fall away." What is the use of putting this "if" in, like a bugbear to frighten children, or like a ghost that can have no existence? My learned friend, "Who art thou that repliest against God?" If God has put it in, he has put it in for wise reasons and for excellent purposes. Let me show you why. First, O Christian, it is put in to keep thee from falling away. God preserves his children from falling away; but he keeps them by the use of means; and one of these is, the terrors of the law, showing them what would happen if they were to fall away. There is a deep precipice: what is the best way to keep any one from going down there? Why, to tell him that if he did he would inevitably be dashed to pieces. ." It leads the believer to greater dependence on God, to a holy fear and caution, because he knows that if he were to fall away he could not be renewed, and he stands far away from that great gulf, because he know that if he were to fall into it there would be no salvation for him. " (Spurgeon) There is no conditional participle present in the Greek text to support any claims that the word "if" in Heb. 6:6 was in the original text. The writer in Hebrews simply says to us …. kai parapesontas – "and they have fallen away" (second aorist active participle). The Greek conjunction "kai" usually means "and" has an adversative force here, meaning and yet. The writer is saying "they had all these blessings and yet in spite of all this, they have still fallen away" (A.T. Robertson) The NEB translates the phrase, "and after all this" There is nothing in either the language or the context to indicate that the instances of apostasy cited in Heb. 6:4-6 are only hypothetical. Those who hold to the unconditional eternal security position take this text to say that "this is not a warning of apostasy, but rather a warning against imagining that apostasy is possible." Their reasoning comes from Paul's statement "But beloved, we are persuaded better things of you." They fail to reckon with the transition from the third person (those, they, and them) in verses 4-6 to the second person (you) in verse 9. The writer is persuaded of better things for "you" not "them" (from zach) If I thought as the Arminian thinks, that I might fall away, and then return again, I should pretty often fall away, for sinful flesh and blood would think it very nice to fall away, and be a sinner, and go and see the play at the theatre, or get drunk, and then come back to the Church, and be received again as a dear brother who had fallen away for a little while. (Spurgeon) Well I don't know in full what an Arminian thinks, I can only say that I personally don't think the way Spurgeon describes above. If you fall away, thats it in my understanding of Scripture, you trampled underfoot Christ and His grace and no other present, or future offer will ever be made available to such who fall away (zach) Take care, then Christian, for this is a caution. (Spurgeon) I too believe it's a caution and much more. It is also a strong warning, and an actual possibility, not a hypothetical situation as some believe (zach) |
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99 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34928 | ||
Part 3 "But if a child of God could fall away, and grace could cease in a man's heart—now comes the third question—Paul says, IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIM TO BE RENEWED. What did the Apostle mean? One eminent commentator says, he meant that it would be very hard. It would be very hard, indeed, for a man who fell away, to be saved. But we reply, "My dear friend, it does not say anything about its being very hard; it says it is impossible, and we say that it would be utterly impossible, if such a case as is supposed were to happen; " (Spurgeon) In the above statement from Spurgeon he mentions that such cases of falling away as "supposed cases" and not actual. To that I disagree, believing their are actual cases. (zach) "God has cast them away; after he has failed in saving them by these, what else can deliver them? " (Spurgeon) God isn't the one who casts people away. People cast God away (zach) "And if already the Holy Spirit hath failed," (Spurgeon) The Holy Spirit doesn't fail. It is man that fails. (zach) "do we read that Christ will ever die for those who crucify him twice? But the Apostle tells us that if believers do fall away, they will "crucify the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Spurgeon) Scripture doesn't actually say exactly what Mr.Spurgeon says it says in the above quote. What it actually says is: "and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify TO THEMSELVES the Son of God, and put Him to open shame (NASB) I prefer the NASB for this verse because I see no justification in the Greek for the word "if" which is found in the KJV (Check it out for yourselves) It is to themselves, not others that they make the crucifixion void, and if they turn their backs on Christ and His offering of Himself then no other sacrifice can be offered, because the one time offering of the body of Christ is sufficient, and is a continual offering for both initial and final salvation for those endure unto the end. Perseverance involves endurance. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. --- and other like verses (zach) "What next? There must be a second incarnation, a second Calvary, a second Holy Ghost, a second regeneration, a second justification, although the first was finished and complete—in fact, I know not what. It would necessitate the upsetting of the whole kingdom of nature and grace, and it would, indeed, be a world turned upside down, if after the gracious Saviour failed, he were to attempt the work again." (Spurgeon) In the above quote Spurgeon talks as if a person falls away then the "Saviour failed" If a person fails that doesn't mean the Savior failed, the failure again rests on man not Christ Jesus. (zach) "So, my hearer, could it be possible that grace could work in thee, and then not affect thy salvation—that the influence of Divine grace could come down, like rain from heaven, and yet return unto God void, there could not be any hope for thee, for thou wouldst be "nigh unto cursing," and thine end would be "to be burned." (Spurgeon) No M. Spurgeon God's word WILL NOT return void. The offer will be extended to others. When the Jews rejected the Lord, God then turned his attention to the Gentiles. God's word will accomplish what it was sent to accomplish. The fullness of the Gentiles will come in and then God will again return His attention to the Israel (zach) "There is one idea which has occurred to us. It has struck us as a singular thing, that our friends should hold that men can be converted, made into new creatures, then fall away and be converted again. I am an old creature by nature; God creates me into a new thing, he makes me a new creature. I cannot go back into an old creature, for I cannot be uncreated. But yet, supposing that new creatureship of mine is not good enough to carry me to heaven. What is to come after that? Must there be something above a new creature—a new creature." (Spurgeon) I have listened many times to an explanation of eternal security based upon the analogy of sonship. "My child is born into my family and he will always be my child. He cannot be unborn. Whether obedient or disobedient, he will always be my child." This reasoning avoids the central issue. The question is not whether a child can be "unborn" but whether it can sicken and die. Doctors do not admonish parents about the dangers of their child being "unborn" but rather about proper care of the child to keep it from dying. In fact if the baby is not fed it will soon die. In the same way, Jesus said, "Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, ye have no life in you." John 6:53 (zach) |
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100 | Fallen 'Partakers of the Holy Spirit?' | Heb 6:6 | zach† | 34927 | ||
Part 2 "And they had gone further still. They had attained the summit of piety. They had received "the powers of the world to come." Not miraculous gifts, which are denied us in these days, but all those powers with which the Holy Ghost endows a Christian. These, we say, whatever may be the meaning of the text, must have been, beyond a doubt, none other than true and real Christians." (Spurgeon) "WHAT IS MEANT BY FALLING AWAY? there is a vast distinction between falling away and falling. Falling is not falling away. Let me explain the difference; If he fall, God will lift him up again; but if he fall away, God himself cannot save him. For it is impossible, if the righteous fall away, "to renew them again unto repentance." (Spurgeon) I agree with Spurgeon that there is a vast difference between falling and falling away. Even believers occassionaly fall into sin. Falling away is complete rennunciation of ones previous held faith. (zach†) "Moreover, to fall away is not to commit sin. under a temporary surprise and temptation. A Christian may go astray once, and speedily return again; and though it is a sad, and woeful, and evil thing to be surprised into a sin, yet there is a great difference between this and the sin which would be occasioned by a total falling away from grace." (Spurgeon) Personally I think to fall into sin is sin, but can be confessed and forgiven. To fall away is sin which will not be forgiven. It is what Spurgeon above called "total falling away from grace." (zach) I do believe that there are some Christians who, for a period of time, have wandered into sin, and yet have not positively fallen away. (Spurgeon) I agree with this above statement of Spurgeon's, however I would add that, I believe those who have "wandered into sin" are "grieving the Holy Spirit" with their sin (Eph 4:29) And are in danger of drifting away from the faith if they continue in persistant willful sin.(Heb. 10:26) (zach) "Again, falling away is not even a giving up of profession." (Spurgeon) I disagree with Spurgeon in the above quote. In Heb. 4:14 we are told "let us hold fast our profession." To not hold onto profession is to not hold onto faith. Of course there is a difference between mere professor's and possessor's but thats a topic for another time. (zach) "Simon. He had fallen, but he had not fallen away; " (Spurgeon) I agree with the above quote. (zach) "But some one says, "What is falling away?" Well, there never has been a case of it yet, and therefore I cannot describe it from observation; but I will tell you what I suppose it is. To fall away, would be for the Holy Spirit entirely to go out of a man—for his grace entirely to cease; not to lie dormant, but to cease to be—for God, who has begun a good work, to leave off doing it entirely—to take his hand completely and entirely away, and say, "There, man! I have half saved thee; now I will damn thee." That is what falling away is. It is not to sin temporarily. A child may sin against his father, and still be alive; but falling away is like cutting the child's head off clean. Not falling merely, for then our Father could pick us up, but being dashed down a precipice, where we are lost for ever. Falling away would involved God's grace changing its living nature. God's immutability becoming variable, God's faithfulness becoming changeable, and God, himself being undeified; for all these things falling away would necessitate." (Spurgeon) Spurgeon says there has never been a case of "falling away" yet. Well again I must disagree. He also says: "There, man! I have half saved thee; now I will damn thee." To that I add, God never half saves anyone. Rather it is man who only goes half way with God to actually obtaining final salvation, he stopped short. Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. God is not to blame neither is He at fall for the one who departs or falls away. Spurgeon also says: "Falling away would involved God's grace changing its living nature. God's immutability becoming variable, God's faithfulness becoming changeable." And we know from Scripture that God does not change. Heb. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. It is man's attitude in neglecting so great salvation that has changed. Heb. 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; (zach) |
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