Results 201 - 220 of 239
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Results from: Notes Author: djconklin Ordered by Date |
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Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
201 | What day do YOU attend church? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25522 | ||
And thoise who want to jump way beyond the evidence and ask questions with the intent of putting others down get what they deserve. If I had known that this forum was going to be anti-Bible and not wanting to study (as per the name) in-depth I wouldn't have come here. I quess assumed too much. | ||||||
202 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25520 | ||
A number (but not all) of your questions are answered in my study at http://biblestudy.iwarp.com. Last I checked it ran over 70 pages so I'm not going to cut-and-paste it all here. Think about the use of "or"--it just doesn't make sense in the context of the whole. |
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203 | what sabbath does it refer to? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25516 | ||
One can always get an answer if one asks the right questions. But, at the same time one learns the lessons best if one asks the questions of the text and does one's homework. Unfortunately, as the Greek proverb says: All things good to know are difficult to learn. Questions that are asked with the intent of putting others down get what they deserve. |
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204 | Sunday or Saturday? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25513 | ||
As I understand the Bible the Sabbath runs from sundown to sundown not 6 to 6 (after all they didn'thave clocks in the Garden of Eden or in most, if not all, of the OT. I liked your very careful choice of words: "the early church gathered on either day." But, that isn't the question; the question really is on which day should we worship God? Col.2:16-17 is NOT talking about the seventh-day Sabbath or Sunday. Acts 20:7 was simply a meeting on Saturday nite because Paul was leaving the next day (i.e. he was traveling on Sunday but not the Sabbath because to him it was still holy). Thanks for the texts. |
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205 | What IS your belief? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25407 | ||
I wasn't judging you. It takes along time to even find all of the relevant data. In fact, in the past two weeks others have pointed me to about another dozen sources. I didn't say that _you_ wanted a myth. Nor, did I say that I only study one verse per year or that I don't interpret the Bible. I have never said (much less even thought) that my knowledge was siuperior to others--that's why my bibliography on Col. 2:16-17 is over 180 sources long vs. just having it listing me as the fount of all wisdom and sarcasm. |
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206 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25406 | ||
I wasn't trying to put down anyone. Thank you for the correction on the plural of thesis. |
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207 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25372 | ||
" I on the other hand using what I perceived to be the tone of your response." Either you were typing faster than you were thinking (I can understand that!) or English is not your native language. |
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208 | What IS your belief? | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25371 | ||
Shepard's thesis's were speculations and thus are the product of man. Mine is a grammatical and linguistic analysis of the evidence; that is, I looked to see what the Greek words that Paul wrote meant. --- ""I still don't know whether you are saying that we should repent and dump Sunday assembly, or it's technically wrong but morally OK, or what?"" My study was of limited scope (it isn't even a complete exegetical analysis fo the verse). To go beyond the evidence is called eisegesis. There are others here who are far more capable and willing to do that. Since I have been trained as a pastor I can't go beyond what the text says. If you want a myth talk to the myth-makers; I'll give you cold hard facts. All I can tellyou so far is that if someone uses Col. 2:16-17 and tells you that it says Paul says we should keep the Sabbath then I can say that they a) haven't read the text clearly and b) Paul isn't even talking about the seventh-day Sabbath at all--tangentally, but still based on what Paul does say in Col. 2:16, we can say that since he didn't tell the believers not to keep the feast days and new moons and ceremonial sabbaths and he refers to them in the present tense some 30 years after the cross doesn't that imply that we should be keeping them today? And if that's true for them then what does that say about the seventh-day Sabbath? And then, where does that leave Sunday-keeping? One should always bear in mind that a sin is not sin if you don't know that it is a sin. And God knows exactly what you know and why you know it. He also knows why you don't know some things and what you could have known if you had taken the effort to know. Kapeesh? |
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209 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25364 | ||
There is nothing wrong with having group prayer and Bible studies on any day of the week. BTW, that should be "eating and drinking" not food and drink and secondly in Greek the first "eta" should be "either"--as not in "or you eat your vegetables or there will be no dessert". Now take a close look at "with regard to" (Gk: "en merei"). |
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210 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25254 | ||
"... but how do we now "know with a fair degree of certainty" that Paul used the word "kai"? ..." Scholars who have studied the texts have found that the earliest one's had "kai"; also it doesn't make sense to have "eta". --- "How many English translations were there before the King James?" That depends on how far you count it as being English! ;) There was about half a dozen earlier Bibles in English, like Tyndale, Great, and Geneva. If you check into the KJV only theory you'll find the info. |
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211 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25251 | ||
I prefer to go by Scripture rather than the teachings of men. | ||||||
212 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25250 | ||
I thought I had read somewhere that Justin was in rome. Which would mean that his works correspond with what Socrates and Sozomen had said. | ||||||
213 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25247 | ||
If I had to guess I suspect that the rabbinical rule was made during the intertestamental period, probably after the time of the Maccabees. | ||||||
214 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25246 | ||
I did correct your obvious misunderstanding and imputing false motives when it wasn't necessary, neither of which is linguistic. --- "Thank you for the interesting thoughts on why you believe we should worship on the seventh day Sabbath." I didn't say any such thing; I was just correcting a common misunderstanding about translating in general and Col. 2:16 in particular. |
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215 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25188 | ||
Perhaps; they do say that us males get combative on the web. | ||||||
216 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25187 | ||
I was working too. It isn't like that was the only thing I did. Mind you it takes interlibrary loan two weeks to get new material to me. My studies on the date of the book of Daniel (it was not written in 164 B.C.) and the meaning of the word 'almah in Isa. 7:14 ("virgin") didn't take me quite so long. When I started this study I had no idea what it was all about and in fact, if you read the study carefully you'll see that I _disagree_ with the SDA commentary, Dr's. Bacchiocchi, Paulien and Richardson (I studied under the first two while I was in the seminary). Not bad eh? |
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217 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25186 | ||
What "en"? Do you mean "eta" (or)? The mss used as the base for the KJV (not a strict translation but more of an updating of previous English translations) were few in number and not representative of all that is out there today. We now know with a fair degree of certainty that Paul used the word "kai" which means "and". BTW, Col. 2:16-17 was written in Greek not Hebrew. I use a wide variety of translations and I do not rely on any specific one. I use BibleWorks 4.0 (5.0 just came out; check it out, it is very powerful and has the Greek and the Hebrew so you can call up a verse and scroll over either the Greek or Hebrew word and see what each word means.) Daniel wrote in Hebrew; Paul wrote in Greek. Two totally different languages, letters, words and grammatical rules. You are correct in your quess that some of the festivals have not yet been fulfilled. It has been noted that the spring festivals were predictive of Christ's first coming and that the fall are about His second coming. As I noted in my study there are a number of people who have written about the festivals. My study was not on that aspect per se. It was a grammatical and linguistic analysis of the text. |
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218 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25181 | ||
"Now are you going to try to shame me ..." I never do such a thing; why are you so guick and eager to impute motives? Do you have a license? --- "... by saying you were merely implying that thousands of translators had made the same mistake over a period of 500 years," 1) Tremendous advancements have been made in our knowledge about Biblical times in the last 40-50 years. So, to consider translations older than that as somehow above and beyond reproach is very misguided. 2) "Thousands"? 3) Look at the lexicons and compare them with the various translations. You will find that all translations are flawed in one way or another. Partly this is because translating isn't as straightforward as some (usually those who have never done it) might believe. Secondly, it is very hard to put aside one's preconceptions ab't what a text says. Thirdly, there is the "herd instinct" factor--not too many people are willing to break away from the pack. Fourthly, as my study shows some translators apparently didn't do their homework/research. --- "had intentionally mis-interrupted this for some devious reason." There you go with the imputing motives kick again. |
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219 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25138 | ||
"I have been reading some of your posts. If I understand your argument correctly, you seem to be saying that Sunday worship only began about 400 a.d. in Rome and Alexandria." Greetings Tim! Actually, what the contemporaries of the timeframe you mention say is that Sunday worship did occur at Rome and Alexandria but that elsewhere they continued to worship on the Sabbath (Socrates writing earlier than Sozomen mentions only the Sabbath, while the latter mentions both days). While we can find some authors expressing positive attitudes about Sunday that is a long way from saying that whole churches woprshipped on Sunday. Then, of course, we also need ot consider where they wrote from. If they wrote from Rome or Alexandria then that in no way conflicts with what either Sozomen or Socrates wrote. I do agree with you that the historical evidence is "that the attitude toward the Saturday sabbath ranged from tolerance to rejection." |
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220 | what is the true worship day sun. or sat | Col 2:16 | djconklin | 25124 | ||
I especially appreciated the fact that you went back to the Hebrew to draw out it's meaning. BTW, it was vs 3 not vs. 4. A "holy convocation" by "definition" would mean that the childern of Israel gathered together on the Sabbath to worship God. It is said (I'm not all that sure of its validity) that the rabbinical rule ab't the sabbath day's journey came from the size of the encampment and the distance from the farthest away to the tabernacle (i.e., the distance allowed didn't then allow frivolous travel to merely chit-chat with each other). |
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