Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Jesus know all things why marvelled? | NT general Archive 1 | Ray | 63215 | ||
Hi Lionstrong, We could talk together about the two natures. I don't have at hand a listing of Scriptures about Jesus having a nature as a man; perhaps you can do that for me. The nature, however, that is shown in the verses that come to my mind, is the nature of a second Adam. The first Adam, before the fall, (both male and female) were called "Man". I see Jesus then as coming as a Man. He had a physical body just as you have said, but He did not come just as truly man, truly God. His nature was that of a Man, the second Adam. Luke 2:48b, "Son, why have You treated us this way? Behold Your father and I have been anxiously looking for You." And He said to them, "Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father's house?" And they did not know the statement which He had spoken to them." As you must know by now I like the versions that capitalize the pronouns of Jesus. His mother was looking for Him. It was His father that was looking also. It was His Father's house that He was in. So, also, the body that Jesus dwelt in was not only an earthly body, an earthly tabernacle or tent if you will, but it was a body of a Man. But you see, the parents were not looking for the "things of My Father" as Jesus expressed it. They were looking for their child. The "Son" of Luke 2:48 is literally "Child". If this were not the beginning of the quote, I would still capitalize Child. I believe that the Child grew in wisdom and age as a Boy would. I believe that the angels at His birth saw the Baby lying in a manger. When the teachers in the synagogue in the Luke passage heard this Man they were amazed. And when they saw Him, they were astonished. I would think that John the baptist had that same feeling of astonishment when he saw the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him. John 1:33, "And I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, 'He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the one [He, NKJ] who baptizes in the *Holy *Spirit.' And I have seen, and have borne witness that this is the Son of God." I agree with the NKJ about this One. 1 Timothy 3:16 says that great is the mystery of godliness. Or, great is the hidden truth of godliness. The "He who was revealed in the flesh" reads in the NKJ, "God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit/,..." This One who was revealed in the flesh is the Truth and the Life/. John 14:6 People need to know this new and living Way. From the heart, Ray |
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2 | Jesus know all things why marvelled? | NT general Archive 1 | Lionstrong | 63390 | ||
Two things, Ray, (1). There seems to be some confusion on your part as to what is meant by "nature." When it is said that Christ has the nature of a man, all that is meant is that whatever makes a human being a human being Christ has it, no more, no less. Jesus is a real human person. He wasn't just a body occupied by God. (2). I haven't the foggiest idea what you mean by, "...but He did not come just as truly man, truly God. His nature was that of a Man, the second Adam." I'm not on the Caps kick. The Greek NT manuscripts, as far as I know, have no or few capitalized letters. From the hip, Lionstrong |
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3 | Jesus know all things why marvelled? | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 63392 | ||
Lionstrong, I am sure you did not mean to make a technical theological statment when you said "Jesus is a real human person." I don't knoa if this will add to the discussion but for what it is worth.. Theologically Jesus is a Divine Person (Second Person of the Trinity), with a divine nature who became man and took on a human nature. One Divine Person, two natures, divine and human. This doctrine was proclaimed at Council of Ephesus (432 A.D.)in response to the Nestorian heresy. "The dogma asserts there is in Christ a Person, who is the Divine Person of the Logos, and two natures, which belong to the One Divine Person. The human nature is assumed into the unity and dominion of the One Divine person, so that the Divine Person operates in the human nature and through the human nature, as its organ." "The Council of Calcedon (451 A.D.) declared that the two natures of Christ are joined "in one Person and one Hypostatsis"". This is also called the hypostaic union. "In the Hypostatic Union each of the two natures of christ continues unimpaired, untransformed and unmixed with the other." Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Ludwig Ott TAN Books 1974 This is the standard orthodox Christian position held by both Catholics and Protestants.It gets pretty technical as it was worked out in response to various heresies that went from one extreme to the other. Emmaus |
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4 | Jesus know all things why marvelled? | NT general Archive 1 | Lionstrong | 63497 | ||
Technical is right, Emmaus! I think the problem we've (the church) made for ourselves is the use of the word "person," a word which comes down to us not from the Greek, but Latin (persona- mask) I don't think we know what we mean by it. How can one be fully human without being a human person? We have to know what we mean by person in order to deny personhood to Jesus' humanity. I'm not quibbling about the word person or its origin. I'm talking about its meaning. What does it mean to be a person? If man and person are synonymous, how can we say that Jesus was not a human person? The Second Person of the Trinity became fully man in order to represent fully redeemed man. Again, how can he be fully human (in order to represent us) without being a person? In the way we use the word person, maybe the doctrinal statement should be not two natures, but two persons, one hypostasis. Again, I don't want to quibble about words. What's more important is what we mean by what we say. Jesus is One Christ, fully God and fully man. But this is the subject of another Bible study under another thread. Peace, |
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5 | Jesus know all things why marvelled? | NT general Archive 1 | Emmaus | 63528 | ||
Lionstrong, "How can one be fully human without being a human person? We have to know what we mean by person in order to deny personhood to Jesus' humanity. I'm not quibbling about the word person or its origin. I'm talking about its meaning. What does it mean to be a person? If man and person are synonymous, how can we say that Jesus was not a human person? The Second Person of the Trinity became fully man in order to represent fully redeemed man. Again, how can he be fully human (in order to represent us) without being a person?" Jesus is fully human, having a fully human nature, but He is a pre-existing Divine Person, with a Divine nature. Could a human person save us? Or can that be done only by a Divine Person with a divine nature who has taken on our nature? If we ask who Jesus is, we have to say in the ultimate sense, He is God the Son. But is we ask what Jesus is, we can say He is a man, but we can also say He is divine. The definitions here are just as important as in a discussion of the Trinity. One What(God), Three Whos(Persons). With Jesus it is One Who (Person: God the Son), two whats(natures: human and divine). He represents us in His human nature. He is able to save us because of His Divine nature and Personhood. He became like us, so we could become like Him. But we will always be human persons elevated to be partakers of His Divine nature and He will always be a Divine Person who lowered Himself to partake of our human nature and in the process save us. But you are probably right, this is a subject for another thread and another time. Peace, Emmaus |
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