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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Rom 7:9 What's it mean? | Bible general Archive 1 | let it rain | 51834 | ||
alive apart from the Law As I understand the "Doctrine" of original sin, we are conceived in sin. Not that a conceptus has done anything wrong, but is bathed in spiritual depravity. I can make any verse make sense if I'm given enough time. I've seen the verses used to build the original sin doctrine. I think they can all be explained a different way. This verse (Rom 7:9)is the one that convinces me that they OUGHT to be interpreted differently. "sin only makes sense in the context of God's commandments." (Joe) Rom 7:9 I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; Rom 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Rom 6:11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus "I was once alive apart from the Law" can only mean that whether or not the law existed elsewhere, it was not alive in Paul. Could he have been a sinner in need of a savior if he was "alive?" You are not under the law now, but salvation is a past event in your life. Are you not also then, "alive apart from the law?" Can't it be said that one who is "alive to God in Christ Jesus," is also "alive apart from the Law?" A timeline might look like this: ...(a)....(b)....(c)....(d)... where: (a) is physical birth (b) is where the law came in (c) is salvation (d) is physical death it seems to me that for however long (a) lasts, we are not condmned until (b) happens. (b) is where the unsaved or doomed spend their earthly lives and includes phrases such as "dead to the spirit" and "alive to sin" and "enslaved to sin." (c) may have a variety of understandings in differing ages or interpretations, but is mostly marked by accepting the reality of sin in our lives and the need for the risen christ. (d) is our entrance to eternal bliss or eternal hell. I think (a) is what Paul was talking about. He was not saved, but only because he hadn't had the time to get lost yet! Original sin IS a well developed doctrine, but not in scripture. |
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2 | Rom 7:9 What's it mean? | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 51856 | ||
You didn't address much of what I wrote at all... You wrote: 'As I understand the "Doctrine" of original sin, we are conceived in sin. Not that a conceptus has done anything wrong, but is bathed in spiritual depravity.' I would argue that that is not the best way of looking at it. It is not the human act of reproduction that makes a baby sinful in nature. Our sinful nature is part of the curse resulting from the Fall: "For as through the one man's disobedience the many were MADE sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." --Romans 5:19-21 There is no getting around the clear teaching of Paul that our sinful tendency existed prior to the giving of the commandments (we were made sinners long before we were born or conceived). The Law just gave something for our sinful natures to clearly work against, a blueprint for what we should do so that we, being dead in sins, will do the opposite or do the Law outwardly to glorify ourselves rather than God. The result? Transgressions increased! You wrote: '"I was once alive apart from the Law" can only mean that whether or not the law existed elsewhere, it was not alive in Paul.' Well, it COULD mean something else. We know that Paul, being a Jew, was BORN under the Law (while I as a Gentile was not), so from his circumcision he was made a participant in the Sinaitic Covenant (the Law). So he didn't have much of a long life apart from the Law. What this could mean is that Paul, not having committed any ACTUAL sins, could have been considered alive "in practice." Whether or not that is the case, we see that the sinful passions which caused Paul to sin against the Law and "die" were already present within him. The Law did not cause them to come into existence, but merely aroused them and "brought them to life." No external entity introduced sinful desires into a previously "neutral" or "good" Paul. They were there all along, and the Law brought them out to play. One thing that can be clearly seen: the Law may have come from the outside, but sin originated from within. And that is what the doctrine of original sin holds: not that we were born having committed actual sins, but that we were born with a disposition to do nothing that pleases God (Romans 8:6-9). --Joe! |
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