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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | New Creature | 45125 | ||
You stated: "In verse 17 John says that the Son was sent not to condemn the world but that the world through Him might be saved. Clearly then if ‘world’ means ‘every human being’ then the passage teaches universal salvation since the Son was sent to save the ‘world’ or ‘every human being’. If you deny universal salvation, then you have to admit the Son has failed in his mission to save "the ‘world’ or ‘every human being’ since according to the Son Himself not all human being are going to be saved. Which of the two do you prefer, New Creature? The universal salvation or the failed mission of the Son? " Concerning John 3:16-18 What is meant by the word "world" is clarified in verse 18 "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead because their deeds were evil. This is clearly the whole fallen world. Scripture says "When he the Holy Spirit comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment. (John 16:8) Certain denominations theology demands that "world" and "all" don't really mean all. It is painful to watch the logic of many denominations, respond by claiming the Bible uses the words "world" and "all" in a restricted limited sense. If all does not mean all fallen human beings, then what does it mean in Romans 3:23 when it says: All have sinned. Using the logic that all doesn't mean all would then mean that in this verse the word "all" means that only all the elect have sinned, which I am sure you will disagree with. Also: How do you get around this verse? 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and NOT FOR OURS ONLY, BUT ALSO FOR [the sins of] the whole world. Finally, I don't believe that salvation is universal. It is only universal in it's offer, but is only made actual for those who by faith receive it. Neither do I believe than God ever fails or failed in any mission. It is man that fails and is held accountable for his choice which God allows him to make. |
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2 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | congregationalist | 45147 | ||
Hello New Creature, you wrote: Concerning John 3:16-18 What is meant by the word "world" is clarified in verse 18 "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead because their deeds were evil. This is clearly the whole fallen world. You did not address my conclusions, New Creature. My main point was to illustrate, from Scripture, that the meaning of the word should be determined by, firstly, its immediate context and, secondly, in light of God’s revelation as a whole. I have pointed out to you that interpreting the word ‘world’ to mean ‘every single human being’ brings at least 3 difficulties that cannot be reconciled with the rest of the Scripture. You didn’t address those conclusions at all and simply keep insisting that your interpretation is correct. As for the verse 19 to which you now draw my attention to (not 18 BTW) I would have no problem in agreeing with your understanding of the word ‘world’ there, in verse 19 that is. But this is further strengthens my point, namely that the meaning of the passage, or the word for that matter, should interpreted in its context first. The ‘world’ in verse 19 does not pose any difficulty but it does pose some serious problems in John 3:16-18 if taken to mean ‘every human being’ but this has been already addressed by me and ignored by you. You wrote: Scripture says "When he the Holy Spirit comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment. (John 16:8) Certain denominations theology demands that "world" and "all" don't really mean all. It is painful to watch the logic of many denominations, respond by claiming the Bible uses the words "world" and "all" in a restricted limited sense. If all does not mean all fallen human beings, then what does it mean in Romans 3:23 when it says: All have sinned. Using the logic that all doesn't mean all would then mean that in this verse the word "all" means that only all the elect have sinned, which I am sure you will disagree with. OK then, if “world’ in the scriptures, particularly in John, always means what you say it means then John 7:7 teaches that Chinese peasants hated Christ in about 30 AD, John 8:26 teaches that Christ spoke the truth to the North American natives in about the same time Chinese peasants hated Him and John 12:19 teaches that Pharisees believed that Australian natives have gone after Christ when they said among themselves “Look, the world has gone after Him!”. The nonsense like this disappears when proper exegesis is applied to the word of God to discern the truth it reveals. You wrote: Also: How do you get around this verse? 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and NOT FOR OURS ONLY, BUT ALSO FOR [the sins of] the whole world. I do not get around verses, I simply compare one scripture with another to determine what God is teaching me here or there. 1 John 2:2 does not pose a problem for me as you might think it does. If scripture everywhere teaches that Christ has propitiated for the sins of his church, his people only, then 1 John 2:2 cannot teach the contrary since God is the Lord of truth, not of lies. If 1 John 2:2 teaches that Christ propitiated for the sins of every human being, then 1 John 5:19 teaches that every human being is under control of the evil one since one and the same word, kosmos is used but we know that Christians are not under the evil one but under God as 1 John 5:19 teaches. Your insistence on one and only meaning of the word ‘world’ just makes nonsense out of scriptures. Tell me, if you believe Christ has propitiated for the sins of all human kind, why some are in hell? Because of their unbelief? Now I ask (together with John Owen), is not unbelief a sin? If yes, then did not Christ propitiated for all sins of all men, including the sin of unbelief? Did He or did he not? Any answers? You wrote: Finally, I don't believe that salvation is universal. It is only universal in it's offer, but is only made actual for those who by faith receive it. But surely a great number of the human kind have never ever heard of either God of Abraham or Son of God Christ Jesus or that there’s salvation offered and available. How can it be universal if it’s not truly universal? You wrote: Neither do I believe than God ever fails or failed in any mission. But if Christ was sent to save the world, the human kind but did not save it, then He surely failed the mission His Father has assigned to Him. John 3:17 clearly states that Christ was sent that the world might be saved and John 4:42 calls Christ the saviour of the world. If your meaning is attached to these verses then you can say you don’t believe Christ failed in his mission as long as you like but clearly this is what you testify with your own words you think he did – He intended to save the world, the human kind but failed. |
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3 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | New Creature | 45205 | ||
you are correct when you say: "that the meaning of the word should be determined by, firstly, its immediate context and, secondly, in light of God’s revelation as a whole" And in every instance in John 3:16-21 each time the word "world" is mentioned refers to all of fallen humanity. In verse 16 God so loved some? No, it doesn't say that. John could have used the word "some" or "the elect" if he had chosen to, since "elect" was a word that was in use at the time of his writting. It says God so loved the world., and further on in the same verse it says: "whosoever" there is no justification for "world" and "whoever" to mean some. There is no limiting words here. John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (might be saved, not will be. Only those who by faith appropriate by faith the free gift of eternal life will receive it. Thats why it's called a gift. Again the offer of salvation is extended to "all" (2 Cor. 5:15 he (Jesus) died for all,) Why didn't Paul qualify that by saying all the elect? 1 Tim. 1:15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. (Are the unsaved sinners? Are they too in need of salvation?) 1 Tim. 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. belief is the condition for salvation, those who are condemned are so only because they have not believed. It does not say they could not believe, but only that they have not. John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. Light is come into the world - John 1:9 [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. (Who does the light not come to? It says the true Light, lighteth EVERY MAN that cometh into the world. Who does EVERY MAN THAT COMETH INTO THE WORLD EXCLUDE?. Why does it not say some men? And again - 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world. In order for you to say that this verse only refers to the church, as many do because of the demands of their theology, is to add to the text. It is better to read the verse without adding your words to it. (eisegesis) The epistle of 1 John is a family letter to the church. In 1 John 2:2 He is telling the believers, Jesus is the propitiation for our (us who already believe,) but not only for our (the believers) sins. But also for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD. Salvation made available to all, but it is only made actual for those who receive it. by faith. John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: I'm sorry but I can't agree with your intrepretaion, which seems to add the words "some" and "church" where the words "all' and "world" in the proper context are really meant to mean all of fallen humanity. And just to be sure once again that I am not misunderstood. There is no such thing as universal salvation, except in the extent of it's offer. That does not mean God failed in His mission, it only means, men refuse to receive what Christ offers them. The fault lies with condemned men. |
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