Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | congregationalist | 44246 | ||
Hi New Creature, I appreciate your reply. You seem to be in agreement with me that, according to Scripture, God is sovereign, i.e. God has absolute, personal control over the events of the universe, including ordaining and therefore knowing the number of hairs on your head at any given moment or the number of mosquitos in the state of Vermont. He, God that is, foreordained before the foundation of the world that Jesus Christ would be born of the virgin, live a sinless life and die on the cross in order to redeem his people, his elect, from hell and nothing, absolutely nothing could hinder God's decree, not because He looked through time and saw it coming, quite the opposite, it came to pass because He foreordained it to achieve His purpose. Now if this is your view (this is certainly mine) then I don't see how free will fits in unless you explain a bit more about what you mean by 'free will'. I've heard and read quite contrasting definitions of this confusing term so you might want to offer yours if you don't mind. Now to 2 Pet 3:9 Your interpretation implies a God who wills one thing but something completely the opposite happens - God wills that Judas would be saved and not perish but something (or someone) prevented God from fulfilling His own will. Such interpretation denies God's omnipotence (even though you might not want to mean it, but conclusion certainly follows from your exegesis), He does whatsoever He wills, remember the Psalms I quoted last time? Your interpretation makes either Peter or some Psalms stating a falsity and if you believe the Scripture is God's word, and therefore inerrant, then you have to admit there's something wrong with your interpretation and I think I know what it is. To avoid a difficulty 2 Pet 3:9 could present it needs to be realised that God's will should be properly understood as being decretive, on one hand, and perceptive on the other. God's decretive will is mostly hidden from us but we, however, do learn some of His decretive will as the history unfolds. For instance in Acts 4:27-28 we learn that God determined that His Son shall be murdered by the hands of the people of Jerusalem (...to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel [God's that is] determined before to be done, Acts 4:28). God also determined that no one else but Judas will betray Christ and obviously Judas could not get sick or change his mind about betraying Christ for God has determined him to do so (thus goes away free will theology). This is an example of a decretive will of God, some of it we know because it already been fulfilled, some we know will happen in the future (the return of Christ or the resurrection) but most of God's decretive will we do not know (Deut 29:29). Now the best, or at least the best known, example of perceptive will of God is the Ten Commandments. God desires that no one will murder or dishonour their parents, and yet the Ten Commandments are disobeyed all the time, including by Christians as well, He desires that the law would be kept perfect and we would avoid hell as a result but God obviously does not decree such our performance, He actually decrees that we fall. This is necessarily follows from the doctrine of the sovereignty of God whether we like it or not and to answer your original question 'how did sin originate' it should be said that God predetermined, foreordained sin to happen even though the sole responsibility for committing sin lies with Adam alone as our representative and us by, firstly, imputation of sin to us when we are born and secondly by our committing sins ourselves. God’s foreordination of sin does not in any way makes Him culpable for our actual sinning, this is just does not follow logically nor scripturally for whatever God does is good and just, therefore foreordaining sin is good and just as opposed to sinning. Sinning is evil and wicked and this is what we do. God, in the first place, has no law answerable to and by definition cannot sin for there’s no law for him to break thus trying to make God responsible for our sinful action is wrong off the start, whatever the means are chosen for the task but, as I mentioned previously, if God is sovereign, it follows necessarily God and no one else willed and foreordained the fall of man as well as some angels. Also, finally, note who Peter addresses in the epistle (and the passage as well). It is 'us', 'the beloved', 'brethren' and so on. Of the same people, that is saved and regenerated Christians, Peter says "The Lord is... longsuffering to us-ward, [us-ward, Christians that is] not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance [that is all the elect, they and they alone should come to repentance]. |
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2 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | New Creature | 44290 | ||
You stated; "the elect, they and they alone should come to repentance" How does that idea agree or disagree with the following scripture? Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance GOD winked at; but NOW COMMANDETH ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT: (captialization mine for emphasis) I will also shortly give you an answer to some of the other objections and questions you asked of me in this your reply to me. But in the mean time I will wait for you to respond to this one question I now ask. |
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3 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | congregationalist | 44375 | ||
Hi New Creature I think I answered this kind of question in my previous post (interesting, isn't it? ;-) God commands all people (without exception as per Romans 1) to keep Hs moral law or to repent of their sin as per the passage you quoted. But as you well know no one, save Christ alone, has ever kept God's law. God commanded Israelites to love Him with all their heart, mind and strength and yet no one ever did that, again, save Christ our Lord alone. As I said previously, commandments or precepts are there for us to follow but it does not mean at all God decreed or willed that these precepts will be obeyed, He actually decreed the opposite, that all men will break His law and be guilty of sin before God and on this bases God punishes the wicked, for their breaking the law and not repenting of it. To answer your question directly, God commands all people, without exception (how He commands people who never heard the gospel to repent Paul mentions briefly in Romans 1) to repent of their sin but He decrees that only His church, his elect, will repent and have saving faith, both of which are God's gifts by the way which He Himself gives to whomsoever He desires irrespective of persons' standing on the moral ladder so to speak. |
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