Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | New Creature | 43845 | ||
I read in Gen. 1:31 "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good." Everything God created was very good. There was nothing bad about anything He created. I believe that! I also believe God created Lucifer and God didn't create Lucifer into a sinner. However the the first sin is attributed to Lucifer. So what EXACTLY caused Lucifer to commit the first sin, who later tempted Adam and Eve to sin, since we know that God is not the originator of sin and does not tempt anyone? How did the temptation of Lucifer come about or originate? James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: |
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2 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | congregationalist | 43846 | ||
I think you already know the answer but for one reason or another not willing to admit you know it :-) Some verses you may want to look at are these: Psalm 115:3 But our God is in heaven; He does whatever He pleases Obviously, if God is sovereign, then it follows there's nothing in the universe that happens outside of God's will, including the sins of some angels and all men (save Christ alone) and He does whatsoever He pleases including the foreordination of sin. The Bible does not hide this simple truth and it is rather strange why Christians in this age are shy of some of this Biblical truth. Another Psalm says: "Whatever the LORD pleases He does, In heaven and in earth, In the seas and in all deep places." (136:6) If it did not please the Lord and if He did not foreordain Satan's sin as well as Adam's, then it follows that what God did not will had actually happened and therefore there's some other force in the universe superior to God or at least outside of His control. But such is not the God of the Bible. The God of the Bible, according to Daniel 4:35 "...doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" After Biblical data is examined (not as briefly as I did here though) it is clear that: 1) whatever happens in the universe happens because God wills it so 2) it is so happened that some angels and all men (save Christ) sinned, Therefore, it was God's will that (2) happened. However, the erroneous conclusion so often put forth is because (1) and (2) are true, therefore God is the author of sin, but clearly such a conclusion just does not follow and therefore false. One simply cannot construct a sound Biblical argument to arrive at the conclusion that God is the author of sin. Just because God the Father willed that His Son be crucified does not make the Father responsible for His Son's crucifixion. Why God does what He does invokes immidiately that passage from Daniel 4 "none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" Remember Deut 29:29? Hope this clarifies the matter a little :-) |
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3 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | New Creature | 44077 | ||
Thanks for the reply. You stated, "Obviously, if God is sovereign, then it follows there's nothing in the universe that happens outside of God's will" I agree with you that God is Sovereign, and He does whatever He wills to do, and nothing happens thats outside of His will, and nothing catches Him by surprise. He knows the beginning of a matter, and also the end of the matter. But look at the following verse. 2 Pet. 3:9 THE LORD IS NOT slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, but that all should come to repentance. Notice, that verse says, "the Lord ... is not willing that any should perish" That verse talks about the Lord's will, and how the Lord's will is that none perish. But yet we know that the Bible speaks about those who will perish. Not everyone will be saved. So does the fact that the Lord wills all to be saved, combined with the fact, that not all will be saved, diminish His sovereignity? Personally I don't think it does. I believe God gave mankind a will also, and man often exercises His God given freedom of choice to disobey God. But yet God permits or allows man to choose obedience or disobedience. Only a Sovereign God could grant individual choice, which I call free will, and along with free will comes individual responsibility. |
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4 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | congregationalist | 44246 | ||
Hi New Creature, I appreciate your reply. You seem to be in agreement with me that, according to Scripture, God is sovereign, i.e. God has absolute, personal control over the events of the universe, including ordaining and therefore knowing the number of hairs on your head at any given moment or the number of mosquitos in the state of Vermont. He, God that is, foreordained before the foundation of the world that Jesus Christ would be born of the virgin, live a sinless life and die on the cross in order to redeem his people, his elect, from hell and nothing, absolutely nothing could hinder God's decree, not because He looked through time and saw it coming, quite the opposite, it came to pass because He foreordained it to achieve His purpose. Now if this is your view (this is certainly mine) then I don't see how free will fits in unless you explain a bit more about what you mean by 'free will'. I've heard and read quite contrasting definitions of this confusing term so you might want to offer yours if you don't mind. Now to 2 Pet 3:9 Your interpretation implies a God who wills one thing but something completely the opposite happens - God wills that Judas would be saved and not perish but something (or someone) prevented God from fulfilling His own will. Such interpretation denies God's omnipotence (even though you might not want to mean it, but conclusion certainly follows from your exegesis), He does whatsoever He wills, remember the Psalms I quoted last time? Your interpretation makes either Peter or some Psalms stating a falsity and if you believe the Scripture is God's word, and therefore inerrant, then you have to admit there's something wrong with your interpretation and I think I know what it is. To avoid a difficulty 2 Pet 3:9 could present it needs to be realised that God's will should be properly understood as being decretive, on one hand, and perceptive on the other. God's decretive will is mostly hidden from us but we, however, do learn some of His decretive will as the history unfolds. For instance in Acts 4:27-28 we learn that God determined that His Son shall be murdered by the hands of the people of Jerusalem (...to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel [God's that is] determined before to be done, Acts 4:28). God also determined that no one else but Judas will betray Christ and obviously Judas could not get sick or change his mind about betraying Christ for God has determined him to do so (thus goes away free will theology). This is an example of a decretive will of God, some of it we know because it already been fulfilled, some we know will happen in the future (the return of Christ or the resurrection) but most of God's decretive will we do not know (Deut 29:29). Now the best, or at least the best known, example of perceptive will of God is the Ten Commandments. God desires that no one will murder or dishonour their parents, and yet the Ten Commandments are disobeyed all the time, including by Christians as well, He desires that the law would be kept perfect and we would avoid hell as a result but God obviously does not decree such our performance, He actually decrees that we fall. This is necessarily follows from the doctrine of the sovereignty of God whether we like it or not and to answer your original question 'how did sin originate' it should be said that God predetermined, foreordained sin to happen even though the sole responsibility for committing sin lies with Adam alone as our representative and us by, firstly, imputation of sin to us when we are born and secondly by our committing sins ourselves. God’s foreordination of sin does not in any way makes Him culpable for our actual sinning, this is just does not follow logically nor scripturally for whatever God does is good and just, therefore foreordaining sin is good and just as opposed to sinning. Sinning is evil and wicked and this is what we do. God, in the first place, has no law answerable to and by definition cannot sin for there’s no law for him to break thus trying to make God responsible for our sinful action is wrong off the start, whatever the means are chosen for the task but, as I mentioned previously, if God is sovereign, it follows necessarily God and no one else willed and foreordained the fall of man as well as some angels. Also, finally, note who Peter addresses in the epistle (and the passage as well). It is 'us', 'the beloved', 'brethren' and so on. Of the same people, that is saved and regenerated Christians, Peter says "The Lord is... longsuffering to us-ward, [us-ward, Christians that is] not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance [that is all the elect, they and they alone should come to repentance]. |
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5 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 44262 | ||
Hello Congregationalist, you sound like Reformer only with another hat on; you two should really hit it off. When it comes to Calvinistic teaching, some of it I can believe and other parts I can't. I am Calvinistic in my thinking when it comes to eternal security. It seems to me that thinking along the lines that you mentioned destroys a person's drive, with reference to getting the Gospel out. If it isn't going to make any difference anyway, since the people that one might witness to are predestined already, why waste your time; and why bother to pray for someone if God has already made his decisions! Maybe that's where Romans 11:33 comes into play? Romans 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! CDBJ |
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6 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | congregationalist | 44353 | ||
Hi CDBJ you replied to my post: "...you sound like Reformer only with another hat on.." I understood the 'Reformer' bit but missed the bit about the hats ;-) what did you mean? you also wrote: "... If it isn't going to make any difference anyway, since the people that one might witness to are predestined already, why waste your time; and why bother to pray for someone if God has already made his decisions!..." Does the Bible teach predestination or not? Can you please tell me? Thanks, Congregationalist |
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7 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 44529 | ||
Hello Congregationalist, Reformer Joe is a very active member of the forum who sounds just like you. I am sure that you two will meet at some point in a discussion. Joe is very interesting to talk with and he is very well versed on Scripture; he knows Reform Theology like the back of his hand, but then again he has been whacked a few times on the back of that same hand by some on the forum, you'll like Joe. I ask you a question and this is how you answered. Does the Bible teach predestination or not? Can you please tell me? Nice ploy, but you answer my logical question first; mine is easy since all I want is your opinion. There is no verse to back it up either way. CDBJ |
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8 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | Reformer Joe | 44541 | ||
Talk about me behind my back, will you?!? :) --Joe! |
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9 | How did sin originate | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 44577 | ||
I keep forgetting this thing isn't a telephone; it looks like nothing is private anymore. Well I guess you caught me in with the goods. I was telling a new guy on the block that, after reading his post, I thought it was you, wearing a different hat. The thread seemed like it had a familiar tone but the name was different. Congregationalist wasn't sure who I was referring to so I tried to explain it to him. I managed to leave out all the nasty stuff that you spring on all us helpless souls on the forum, so don't worry he is still venerable and I will let you dump all that on him yourself. Good by Joe, CDBJ |
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