Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | How is the end really going to happen? | Bible general Archive 1 | praisemaster | 33995 | ||
Thepoet5656, After reading all these lines of theology. To correctly state pretrib, when it all began to be introduced in the 1800's, it was called the secret rapture. At that time it was the minority view. Today it is the majority view, especially since the book by Hal Lindsey. And now the ideology of the secret rapture has reached an even greater height of acceptance within the church body. One question I ask, if the secret rapture is so easy to see then why doesn't such great scholars as Martin Luther ever speak of it? How about Mr.Calvin? Or even Gerome? Why is it for almost 1800 years (give or take 400 or 500 yrs.) for the time of the writing of the manuscripts, why are there no other scholars before the 1800's all the way back to Genesis 1:1 that no one expresses this theology. In Matt 10:26 26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. KJV So, just as the Jehovah's Witnesses say, there was no one around to interpret the bible correctly until the Watchtower Society. Kind of erroneus isn't it? It follows the same manifestation and guidelines that no one can interpret these scriptures until the 1800's. Just as I have pointed out to the Jehovah's witnesses, I have just pointed out to you. So the church body was deaf,blind and dumb and all the scholars upon the face of the earth were blinded also. Not that I agree with midtrib but at least they have a genuine argument. But one of the scriptures that the secret rapture people love to use is 1Cor. 15:51-52 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. KJV It amazes me all the books I've read on the rapture ties these verses to 1 Thess.4:13-18 13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage each other with these words. (from New International Version) The key is in 1 Cor. 15 is the word "LAST" in the orginal Greek is, NT:2078 eschatos (es'-khat-os); a superlative probably from NT:2192 (in the sense of contiguity); farthest, final (of place or time): KJV - ends of, last, latter end, lowest, uttermost. the word "LAST" has been used with the same translation 53 times in the New Testament. And the context of it's use is always the same. "LAST" is the most furtherest out. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer but there are only seven trumps, and throughout the Bible you can only find the first and second advent. So, I'm sure you can at least concur with this that the first advent has already happened and we are waiting upon the second with no secret rapture between. Unless I'm confused, and Paul was confused about what he was saying in Corinth compared to what he was saying in Thessalonians. So I'm going to put you on the spot now. If he does not come at the "LAST" trump, does this make Paul a liar? I don't think so. So I encourage everyone to give all the rapture scriptures they can find. (POST-TRIBBER) PRAISEMASTER |
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2 | Is LAST always FINAL | Bible general Archive 1 | 10ECPreacher | 34025 | ||
Greetings, Praisemaster. "Eschatos" does not invariably mean the *very* last; sometimes it applies in a limited sense to a restricted domain or set of items. For example, in John 7:37, the term "eschatos" is used in the phrase "the last day". 'Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink."' We can all agree that that was not the very LAST day that ever was; but it was the very LAST day of the Feast of Tabernacles that year. Another example of this is found in the very chapter you cited which contains the reference to the LAST trump. "and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also." [1 Cor. 15:8 NASB] It is clear in the Scripture that the Apostle Paul will definitely not be the very LAST person to ever see Jesus. "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is." [1 John 3:2 NASB] I think we all agree (at least I hope we do) that Paul was not confused, and he certainly was no liar. :) I have believed for some time now that the term 'LAST trump' meant that it was the last trump for a certain era; and I think I have shown scripture that proves it doesn't HAVE to be the absolute final trump that ever sounds. In fact, I am of the persuasion that it isn't--the seven judgment trumpets belong to another era than that to which the Apostle Paul was speaking. I realize we disagree about this, I just wanted to clarify the meaning of the word 'eschatos'. Kind regards, Tim D. Cormier Tennessee Preacher |
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3 | Is LAST always FINAL | Bible general Archive 1 | praisemaster | 34033 | ||
Dear 10ecpreacher John 3:37 All that it means it’s the last day of the feast at that time. For all good times must come to an end party over. Cor1: 15:8 he was the last apostle. Have you seen any lately. Matt 12:45- 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.KJVMatt 19:30-20:1 30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first. KJVMatt 19:30-20:130 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.KJVLuke 14:10-11 10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. The key word lowest same as last in greek. KJV yell have to do better than that. In love and in Jesus name THE LIVING WATER praisemaster |
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4 | Is LAST always FINAL | Bible general Archive 1 | 10ECPreacher | 34041 | ||
Greetings again, Praisemaster. You write: "John 3:37 All that it means it's the last day of the feast at that time." My reply: Precisely. And that's exactly how to apply the meaning of "eschatos" in 1 Cor. 15:52--all that it means is that it's the last trumpet call for the believers at that time. You write: "Cor1: 15:8 he was the last apostle...." My reply: the context of 1 Cor. 15:8 begins in verse 5: "and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also." [1 Cor. 15:5-8 NASB] I believe the reference here is to all those who had seen Jesus alive after his resurrection, not just the apostles. I'm not trying to convert you to my point of view. I just want to accurately and fairly represent the Word of God. Any offense is unintended and regretted. Kind regards, Tim D. Cormier Tennessee Preacher |
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5 | Is LAST always FINAL | Bible general Archive 1 | Searcher56 | 34072 | ||
Tennessee Preacher, actually the Lord appeared again to John when he wrote the book of Revelation. But, I think of the list given, Paul was the last one He appeared to. Also, last "day" does not always mean a 24-hour period. It could be a period of time. S |
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6 | Is LAST always FINAL | Bible general Archive 1 | 10ECPreacher | 34092 | ||
Searcher56, I agree with you--"of the list given, Paul was the last one He appeared to." That is exactly the point if am VERY UNSUCCESSFULLY trying to make. (Sorry--I didn't mean to yell at you; just wanted to emphasize the fact that I am well aware of just how poor a job I have done in trying to explain a very simple concept.) To hold that the word last ('eschatos') invariably means the absolute unconditional final one is inconsistent with the way the word is used in Scripture. 1 Cor. 15:8 and John 7:37 are two verses where the word 'eschatos' is used to indicate the final one in a certain domain or set of items. Paul was the last to see Jesus of those mentioned, not the last who ever will see him. Jesus stood and cried on the last day, the great day of the Feast of Tabernacles (the eighth day). The Bible says on "the last day"--meaning the last day of a certain set of days, not the last day that would ever be. I know that "day" does not always refer to a 24-hour period, but I would be surprised if anyone tries to argue that that is the way it is being used in John 7:37. Kind regards, Tim D. Cormier Tennessee Preacher |
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