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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Does that site address Rev. 6:16-17? | Bible general Archive 1 | benjamite | 33918 | ||
Sorry, I meant, given 1 Thess 1:10; 5:9; and Romans 5:9, does "that site" (www.signministries.org") place the rapture before or after Rev. 6:16-17? In Him, Benjamite |
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2 | Does that site address Rev. 6:16-17? | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 33972 | ||
Instead of having someone else do all the legwork for you try looking it up for yourself. One answer always lead to fifteen more questions and if most people understood the Koine Greek of the words used in the New Testament they probably wouldn't have ask the question that got it all started in the first place! Ninety nine percent of the time when someone ask a question on eschatology the have pulled one verse so far out of context, for a pretext of personal desire, that it contradicts fifteen other verses on the same subject. Psalm 119:160 The sum of thy word is truth; And every one of thy righteous ordinances endureth for ever. Notice that it says the SUM of; that means that all verses on any particular doctrin must be taken into consideration or added up with out any compromise on any verses for the truth of a specific doctrin to be established. CDBJ |
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3 | Does that site address Rev. 6:16-17? | Bible general Archive 1 | benjamite | 33985 | ||
Legeis Hellenisti? Lego Hellenisti. First, if I can't ask a question, why have the forum in the first place? However, if you know the Greek, you can still go ahead and talk to me. Let's forget about other books for the moment, and let Scripture interpret Scripture. If the books don't fit with Scripture, the books are wrong. As for the last part of your first paragraph, I agree with you. All the verses must fit into my view, as well as yours. Again, each verse must fit into my view, or my view is wrong. I have done the legwork and the so called "pre-wrath view" doesn't fit with the sum of Scripture. The whole tribulation is God's Wrath, not just the last part of it. (Again, Rev 6:16-17) Am I wrong? Please, bear witness with Scripture. Regarding the one verse you mentioned, what it means is that all the verses, of all of Scripture, must be taken into consideration without compromising any other verse in all of Scripture. (2 Tim 3:16-17) I have given you five verses (on the subject). I have not pulled one verse out of context. If I have, please bear witness. If we were counting, that would mean you have to come up with 75 (fifteen for each). Thus far, you've only given one (well, granted, that wasn't really related to the pre-wrath view). If you have the Van Kempen book, this should be easy. In response to your other remark, I don't have scripture "twisted around". Happy Hunting, Benjamite |
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4 | Does that site address Rev. 6:16-17? | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 33991 | ||
The answer to your question Revelation 6:16,17 Rev. 6:16-17 and they say to the mountains and to the rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17for the great day of their wrath is come; and who is able to stand? Notice that in Joel the word BEFORE the great and awesome day of the Lord. Everything that has taken place up to now in Rev. 6 has not been from the Lord. The tribulation up to this point has not been the Lord wrath but that of the adversary! Jesus backs this up with Matt. Chp.24 and Paul says the same thing in II Thess. 1:7-11 2 Thes. 1:7-11 and to you that are afflicted rest with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of his power in flaming fire, 8rendering vengeance to them that know not God, and to them that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus: 9who shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 10when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be marvelled at in all them that believed (because our testimony unto you was believed) in that day. Did you catch the time period in verse 10 (WHEN) The rapture of Christ church and God's wrath on those that are left behind is all going to happen on the very same day! Just like it did in the days of Noah and Lot. Significantly, Joel 2:31 places an important time marker in relationship to these events. Joel declares, The sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes. Any and everyone who attempts to make the sign that initiates the Day of the Lord and Day of the Lord equal must violate this verse. Joel is clear: the sign occurs before the Day of the Lord comes. Whatever else the first four seals are, they are not a part of the eschatological wrath of God, a fact to be substantiated later. 3. The second significant portion of the sixth seal is the response of those who dwell upon the earth in Revelation 6:14-17. 3a. Kings…the great men…the commanders…the rich…the strong…every slave…free man John lists a very broad cross section of humanity who respond to the sign that signals the imminent outbreak of the wrath of God. This list is intended to show that all unbelievers living on the earth at this time are the subjects of the coming wrath. Revelation 19:18-19 indicates that these are the very groups God shall sacrifice to the birds at His great supper. 3b. Hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains this phrase indicates that the wide circle of humanity recognizes the import of these signs. This supports our claim that the mountains and islands do not disappear at this point, but move out of their original locations. Notice, they hid themselves, which is past tense. These people are in the caves and mountains. 3c. They said to the mountains and to the rocks indicates that the wicked desire death. 3d. Fall on us and hide us this phrase is a bit strange. Perhaps, the strangeness of this verse demonstrates the level of fear the wicked are experiencing at this point. Death is not the immediate goal of the wicked at this point. Obviously, if the mountain falls on them, they will die, but they request not only to die, but also to be hidden from the sight of God. This suggests that the presence of God is beyond human appreciation unless man is holy. A wicked man in the presence of a holy God is beyond human tolerance. To be dead is not enough. To merely commit suicide is not enough. For the wicked, even to be dead in the presence of a holy God is not enough. They want to be buried. They want to be out of sight. 3e. From the presence of Him who sits on the throne is a clear reference to God the Father. Throughout the book of Revelation, and in this context (notice the Lamb), God the Father is seated on the throne. Some argue that the presence of Him who sits on the throne is a roundabout way of referring to God the Father without mentioning His name directly. Who is seated is not an issue! For this author, we are more interested in what is seen by the wicked. Isaiah 2:19 states, And men will go into caves of the rocks, and into holes of the ground before the terror of the Lord, and before the splendor of His majesty, when He arises to make the earth tremble. The terror of the Lord and the splendor of His majesty may refer to the glory of God. Peter declares in his second letter that Jesus, received honor and glory from God the Father…the Majestic Glory…. Job 13:11 records, Will not His majesty terrify you, and the dread of Him fall on you? The point is this: there is going to be a manifestation of God the Father at this event. It will involve His glory, which might be depicted through a great throne since God is invisible. This is a two part answer if you want the rest let me know. CDBJ |
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5 | Does that site address Rev. 6:16-17? | Bible general Archive 1 | benjamite | 33994 | ||
First, let me say, "Thank you". Please understand, Scripture matters. Yes, Van Kempen, and even LaHaye and Jenkins, and others might be great reading, but compared with Scripture, God's Word, they don't matter, nothing matters - not books, not websites, nothing. I am working on a more detailed response, than this, but I felt this needed to go out first. In Him, Benjammite |
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6 | Does that site address Rev. 6:16-17? | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 34012 | ||
I take it that you don't believe in Ephes. 4:11-12 And he gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12for the perfecting of the saints, unto the work of ministering, unto the building up of the body of Christ: If you don't need help from other as this statement from Eph. clearly shows, you are the smartest person on this forum. Just be careful friend remember Proverbs 11:2 When pride cometh, then cometh shame; But with the lowly is wisdom. This is the last part to your question if you want it. 3f. From the wrath of the Lamb is the second object of terror for the wicked who seek death and burial as an escape. It is clear that the Lamb is Jesus Christ, the second member of the Trinity. With the Lamb is connected wrath. This is the first explicit usage of the term wrath in the book of Revelation. That it is connected with the Lamb should not be taken lightly. Jesus is the eschatological Judge (John 5:27, Acts 10:42 and Daniel 7:13-14). He executes the Father's wishes. 3g. For indicates the reason for the conduct of the wicked. The reason the wicked call upon the mountains and the rocks to kill and bury them is because of the great day of wrath initiated by the cataclysms. 3h. Great day of their (His) wrath has come is an important clause for several reasons. However, before we look at the significance of the complete clause, the reader may be aware of a slight difference in wording of this verse in different translations. Their verses His wrath is an ongoing discussion. One cannot be dogmatic either way. There is no theological difference regardless of the adopted reading. The Lord Jesus clearly states that He and the Father are one in ever way important. Therefore, His wrath is their wrath and their wrath is His wrath. The context clearly identifies this day as the eschatological Day of the Lord, which in the Old Testament is God the Father's day of wrath. However, in the New Testament, the term Lord comes to represent Jesus as well (Acts 2:36). Therefore, the Day of the Lord is both Jesus' and the Father's eschatological wrath. Has come properly translates the grammatical construction, but the sense of the Greek verb is missing. The Greek suggests the sense is about to come. The emphasis is on the initiation of the action. This fits well with the question of the Martyrs in the fifth seal. The fifth seal requests the coming of the wrath of God. The sixth seal announces the impending or imminent arrival of the wrath of God and the seventh seal demonstrates the wrath of God. 3i. Who is able to stand? This rhetorical question demands an answer, which is no one! There is no wicked person able to stand up against the wrath of God. From Revelation Commentary, www.revelationcommentary. Org If you want to go on pick a point but please one at a time, CDBJ |
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7 | Does that site address Rev. 6:16-17? | Bible general Archive 1 | benjamite | 34031 | ||
To answer your first comment, what I meant was, no human being can claim the infallibility and inerrancy found in the Bible. (Romans 3; 2 Tim 3:16-17) When you or I say something, but the Bible disagrees, we are wrong, no questions asked. Sure, commentaries, and other works, might have their place, and they can be pretty useful at times, but they are not Scripture. If they don't correctly handle one verse that relates to the given subject, they are wrong in that spot, but it still means that they are wrong. Between the writings of man and the Bible, the writings of man pale in comparison, to such an extent that they don't matter. |
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8 | Does that site address Rev. 6:16-17? | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 34042 | ||
2 Tim. 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. This is what I go by, but as with many, sometimes we suffer from a paradigm paralysis. I was a staunch pretribulationist for over thirty two years until I was taught that the scripture says something different. I was almost to the point that I couldn't see the forest for the trees. When I finally unscrewed my head enough to let a different thought in everything fell into place, but if a person is so dead set on trying to see it all one way the truth can almost jump up and bite them and they won't be able to see it. The book that cleared it up for me was the one already mentioned, The Rapture Question Answered. But like Burger King, Have it your way! I would hate to see someone confused by the facts! There are many on this forum that could tell you the same story. CDBJ |
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9 | Does that site address Rev. 6:16-17? | Bible general Archive 1 | Hecameforu | 34079 | ||
Brother CDBJ, I have a question Not just for you, but for all. Can Jesus come back for us tomorrow? Barry I don't see how anyone cannot say "yes". |
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10 | Does that site address Rev. 6:16-17? | Bible general Archive 1 | CDBJ | 34082 | ||
Not according to what the Bible says must happen first if we are to take the Bible at face value. The doctrine of the immense of the rapture is a mystery doctrine without Biblical backing, it is the wishful thinking are the part of some that have twister scripture around to fit a hopeful desire. I would like for it to be so but God has designated other plans that will test our faith to the limit. James 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. 2 Thes. 2:1-11 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Need I go on, CDBJ |
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