Results 1 - 3 of 3
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What was the Lord's expectation? | Bible general Archive 1 | reformedreader | 3186 | ||
Mike, Thanks Mike for two refreshing details; 1. A real name and 2. "I do however believe for us to say that we are that generation would be presumptuous at best". Every generation for the past 2000 years has believed in an imminent return of Christ, signs describing it is about to happen and that they were the rapture generation. They all share one thing in common which is; "They were all wrong"! Presumptuous belief is not honoring to God and does little to aid our hermeneutical abilities and has caused Christians to adopt an attitude of believing in a doomed and defeated church. Nothing can be further from the truth of our Lord's own words when He stated that not even the powers of hell can prevail against His church. Christ did not die to present a defeated church to His Father, He died to present a glorious and victorious church to His Father. If Christians have an attitude of defeat, it is found only in their own hearts. This is the main reason why a Biblical Reformation of thought and study are so seriously needed in the body of Christ as never before. Sam Hughey |
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2 | What was the Lord's expectation? | Bible general Archive 1 | Chris | 3237 | ||
Sam, I'd like to ask not only Mike's, but your forgiveness in Christ, also, because, I truly have allowed my emotions to get the best of me in this debate. I want to preface my comment, with a realization of the debate between Mike and myself. I truly have been blind to an important fact during our debate! As you probably noticed, Mike made it very clear that GOD's time schedule does not allow for immanent return, and for some reason I was blind to the fact that this was a major sticking point, that needed to be rectified. I agree with Mike fully, there is no such thing as immanent return for GOD! He knows everything! And, if you like Charles Stanley, you've probably heard that GOD cannot have expectations; because, He already knows the outcome. Immanent return is only relevant in Man's realm of time and space. Man does not know when the Lord will return, so he must always be looking for the Lord. This problem was clearly stated by Mike, but unfortunately, I was oblivious to this important point of contention. And, to note the difference is crucial! Immanent return is an idea that only exists in the limited time and limited knowledge in the realm of man. The reason I write is because I don't think I understand your comment. You say that all christians, in the past, who have believed in immanent return were wrong, but they were only wrong if it was IMPOSSIBLE for Jesus to have returned at that time. I assume that GOD is and was free to choose ANYTIME to send our Lord back to earth. Therefore, if GOD can choose anytime to send Jesus back or could have chose anytime in the past to send Him back, they were, in fact, correct in thinking that Christ COULD have come back during their lifetimes. Immanent return does not mean Christ WILL come back immediately, only that He COULD come back at anytime (which COULD be soon or even today). And, since I believe we would agree that NOTHING IS (or ever has been) IMPOSSIBLE TO GOD; He could have sent Jesus back in the past if He would have chosen to do so. So, for the sake of not 'being caught unprepared' our christian forefathers were, in my opinion, correct in keeping their heads up looking for Jesus. Notice, that immanent return is not to blame for any of the faulty predictions made in days past. The idea does not espouse a date for the return and in fact, suggests the opposite, since we CANNOT know the date we should always be on the look out; because, our Lord said, 'I am coming quickly!' |
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3 | What was the Lord's expectation? | Bible general Archive 1 | reformedreader | 3458 | ||
Chris, There is nothing to forgive. I was not offended in anyway at all and if I was I would not hold it against you. Chris, they were wrong for believing in something that neither existed nor was taught from Holy Scripture. Nowhere does our Lord ever teach that His return to call out His church would be an any-moment event, meaning God has never concluded exactly when He would return. What we commonly call the rapture, is a definite and determined event that will occur but once and is only an "at one-moment" event. Our Lord knows precisely when He will return because it is an already fixed event in the mind of God. Humans cannot change that event simply because they do not know when it will happen. Saying it is an "any-moment" event contradicts the foreknowledge of God in that it will happen only once and cannot happen at any other time in our history other than the predetermined and fore-ordained time God has already fixed for it to happen. "Assuming" what God can do is not the same as "proving" what God will do. Out of the ANYTIME He was free to choose, He only determined that event to happen at one particular time in history and not before or after that time. Chris, the very fact that our Lord has not returned is the evidence that proves the Father had not ever determined to send His Son until some future time and no time in the past (to us) could ever have been the time the Father had pre-determined to send His Son back for His Church. Again Chris, your view undermines the foreknowledge and pre-determination of God in fore-ordaining the events only He would cause to happen at the appointed time. I don't know if you are familiar with the term "Open Theism", but your view is very close to it. No disrespect intended Chris but not IMPOSSIBLE TO GOD is a common "catch-all" phrase Chrsitians enjoy using when we have no other "biblical" answer. Whenever we can't defend a particular position in which we believe, we just simply say that God can do anything He wants to do and that is supposed to settle the issue. It doesn't and furthermore, it only confuses and further contradicts the issue. Of course I believe nothing is IMPOSSIBLE TO GOD, but that doesn't prove anything. It's not impossible that God could have re-grown all the hair on my head 10 years ago, being almost bald now, but He didn't. Obviously, it was not His will to do so even though it is not impossible. Get the point? If our Christian forefathers truly expected the return of Christ to happen, then they surely believed it would happen. If they surely believed it would happen, they must have had sound biblical warrant for such a belief. However, they were mistaken because it never happend and could not have happened since it was obviously not the Father's will for it to have happened. The false assumption of an unbiblical teaching of an immanent return is VERY MUCH responsible for past and present faulty predictions of our Lord's return. Faulty predictions are the result of faulty understandings which come from a faulty view of scripture. Actually Chris, the idea of a supposed immanent return does indeed espouse a date for the return of Christ. Isn't the very moment you are reading this response considered an "any-moment" in our history? So then, Christ could return at the very moment you are reading this and that is most definately espousing a specific date. However, we leave ourselves an easy-out since we do not specifically name a calendar date. But what's the difference? Isn't the very moment you are reading this a calendar date? The very fact the we not only CANNOT know, but also WILL NOT know, proves the "any-moment" idea is false. You cannot say the rapture will be at any moment, yet I do not know if it will be at any moment. And for what should Christians be "looking out" Chris. Will a sudden, immanent return change anything at all about our relationship with Christ, our salvation, our redemption, our eternal destiny? If "looking-out" means we should live holy lives, then our Lord has already given us a clear, unambiguous and distinct command to do this without any reference to a future rapture. I look forward to hearing from you Chris. Sam Hughey |
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