Results 1 - 8 of 8
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | RE: "immenint return" in first answer | Bible general Archive 1 | Mike P | 3022 | ||
2TI 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 2TI 3:17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. NASB We can see from the passages above that the Scriptures are inspired by God; Therefore, they are without error, also we can safely say that the Scriptures are not subject to the constraints of time or local because the Holy Spirit is omnipresent. ACT 17:10 And the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. ACT 17:11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so. NASB We can see from the passages two verses above that the Bereans were more noble minded than the Thessalonians because they examined the Scriptures to see what was true. ACT 2:40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!" ACT 2:41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and there were added that day about three thousand souls. ACT 2:42 And they were continually devoting themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. NASB From the three verses above the believer's there devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching. In our day we should take much care that we also continue in the apostles' teaching, fellowship, breaking of bread, and prayer. 2TI 4:6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. 2TI 4:7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 2TI 4:8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing. NASB 2 Timothy 4:6 - 8 indicates that Paul the apostle expects to die, not to be raptured. 2PE 1:12 Therefore, I shall always be ready to remind you of these things, even though you already know them, and have been established in the truth which is present with you. 2PE 1:13 And I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling, to stir you up by way of reminder, 2PE 1:14 knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 2PE 1:15 And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you may be able to call these things to mind. NASB 2 Peter 1:14 tells us what Peter saw as imminent, it was his death as the Lord had revealed to him. Peter also was reinforcing apostolic teaching to the Saints, so that they would "be able to call these things to mind" after he was gone. Peter did not expect the rapture during his lifetime or even shortly thereafter, because he was preparing saints for the "long haul". CONCLUSION The "imminent return" of Christ fails the test of apostolic teaching, it fails in the teaching of Paul, it fails in the teaching of Peter, and lastly and most importantly it fails in the light of Divinely inspired Scripture, therefore as a biblical teaching it is disqualified. We need to be prepared for the long haul, I would find it a blessing if our Lord would return for His church in my lifetime, but I am prepared if the Lord should tarry. Please do not be discouraged but rather rest in the fact that the Lord is NOT slack in His promises. Lord Bless Mike Piles |
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2 | RE: "immenint return" in first answer | Bible general Archive 1 | Chris | 3072 | ||
I realize that in 2 Tim. and 2 Peter, Paul and Peter realized they were going to die and, at least in Paul's case he was already in prison probably with a death sentence so for him to foresee this is no huge surprise; Peter knew he was going to die from the Lords very mouth, so that does not mean he didn't believe in immanent return for all other believers. (John is the only other apostle that knew about Peter's destiny and John, I believe, taught immanent return.) I do not believe that Paul thought that he would die before the return of the Lord until the time of 2 Timothy! I believe there are several verses to suggest this is true the strongest examples are, Phil. 3:20, I Cor 15:51-52, and Thes. 4:15. Philippians 3:20, "For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:" (Paul using "we" suggests that he is also waiting and expecting the Savior!) I Cor 15:51-52, "Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (Paul, in the last section of verse 52 is comparing the dead being ‘raised' to the living being ‘changed' and he uses "we shall be changed." to include himself in the living.) Thes 4:15, " For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep." (Paul includes himself with those that will be alive when the Lord returns to rapture believers!) Other support by Paul includes: I Thes. 1:10, "and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, who delivereth us from the wrath to come." (Paul taught all his converts to be ‘waiting' for the Lord, this suggests expectation.) Titus 2:11-13, "For the grace of God hath appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us, to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly and righteously and godly in this present world; looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (The Grace of GOD instructs us to ‘look for' the return of the Lord! Again, implying expectation.) I also believe that immanent return is taught by most of the apostles, not Paul exclusively. Heb 10:37, "For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry." (tarry or delay) Jas 5:8, "Be ye also patient; establish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord is at hand." (hand or near) 1 John 2:28, "And now, my little children, abide in him; that, if he shall be manifested, we may have boldness, and not be ashamed before him at his coming." (Using "we" John believes the manifestation will happen while he is alive to have boldness!) Rev 22:7, 12, 20; "And behold, I come quickly." ( Our Lord repeats this phrase in all three verses.) |
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3 | What was the Lord's expectation? | Bible general Archive 1 | Mike P | 3089 | ||
I believe that God operates on a different time table than we do. See the following passages from Second Peter. 2PE 3:4 and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation." 2PE 3:5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 2PE 3:6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. 2PE 3:7 But the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 2PE 3:8 ¶ But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, THAT WITH THE LORD ONE DAY IS AS A THOUSAND YEARS, AND A THOUSAND YEARS AS ONE DAY. NASB (Caps mine) I believe that the very words of scripture are Divinely Inspired. As such I cannot believe that God would make a statement in Scripture that would be misleading. We do have a sure thing that Christ will return, rest in that irregardless of when He returns. As far as eschatology is concerned we would do well to follow the instructions of our Lord in Acts 1:7-8 "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; but you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth. " NASB There will be a generation that will "remain alive" when the Lord returns for that generation His return will be imminent. I do however believe for us to say that we are that generation would be presumptuous at best. Mike Piles |
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4 | What was the Lord's expectation? | Bible general Archive 1 | Chris | 3112 | ||
But you avoid the problem. What about the scriptures that show that Paul 'thought' he would be alive at the Lord's return? I am not predicting anything, suggesting that I did is somewhat insulting. I am saying that NOTHING is holding our Lord back! He could come at ANY time, I never said a specific time! This, I believe is taught in scripture. Yes, at the end of their lives Paul and Peter knew they where going to die, and the fact that Peter had to include that section(2Pet. 3:4-8) in his second letter PROVES MY POINT!! Why would he have to say, "the Lord is not slack in His promise" if people where not saying that it should have already occured! Since it had not occurred, people were saying that it was not going to occur! You're correct! It is not for us to know times, but the Bible says clearly, BE ON THE LOOK OUT!! It says this because Jesus COULD come back at any minute! That is why, when the apostles were alive they thought that He would come during their own lifetimes. We should live everyday of our lives expecting the Lord to come, that day! In constant expectation! Do you see what I am saying and what I am not saying? There will be no predictions out of this mouth (or address, as it were!) Let me know what you think, do you have a profile? If not fill one out!! GOD bless!! |
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5 | What was the Lord's expectation? | Bible general Archive 1 | Mike P | 3159 | ||
You wrote the following: "But you avoid the problem. What about the scriptures that show that Paul 'thought' he would be alive at the Lord's return?" If Paul indeed thought that he would be alive at the Lord's return. HE WAS WRONG! And every passage of Scripture in which Paul promulgated his error IS WRONG. I believe the Scripture to be without error, therefore, what Paul wrote was not incorrect, but rather the modern interpretation of his writings are incorrect to the extent that the Lord could return at any moment. You have consistently approached this point of doctrine from a human standpoint and neglected to view them from the aspect that the Scripture contains God's words. 52 Major Bible Themes says this on page 17 in regards to the theory of inspiration. VERBAL PLENARY INSPIRATION In the history of the church the orthodox view of inspiration has been described as verbal and plenary. By verbal inspiration it is meant that the Spirit of God guided in the very choice of the words used in the original writings. Scripture, however, indicates human authorship. Various books of the Bible reflect the writer's personal characteristics in style and vocabulary, and their personalities are often expressed in their thoughts, opinions, prayers, or fears. However, although the human elements are evident in the Bible, inspiration contends that God directed so that all the words that were used were equally inspired of God. This is brought out by the use of the word "plenary" which means "full inspiration" as opposed to views that claim only partial inspiration for the Bible. My point on this topic is this. God inspired the writers of the New Testament to write the very words of Scripture. God knows when he will send His Son back for the church. Therefore, it would be inconsistent and misleading for God to have put in His word the teaching that Christ could come at any moment. I submit to you that no such deception exists in Scripture, because God is Truth. Mike Piles |
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6 | What was the Lord's expectation? | Bible general Archive 1 | Chris | 3172 | ||
You speak of TRUTH; however, you hide your eyes as not to see! If our interpretation of these scriptures are wrong, please correct us. I've given you 5 to 10 verses in the BIBLE (i.e. TRUTH), so if the interpretation I use is incorrect then you must know the correct one! Your view of Inspiration is difficult to understand. So, when Jesus said, "And what I say to you I say to all; Watch!" (Mk. 13:37) He must have, according to your interpretation, made a mistake; because, he told the apostles to WATCH for His return and it didn't take place! What is your procedure for eliminating verses from the Bible? Do you mark them out in red or white them out? What do you do? I apologize, but I truly don't understand your way of interpreting scripture! If it is true that Christ could come back at anytime would it still be an error to expect or, at least, hope for His return? And, if Paul knew, when he was alive, that it was indeed possible for Christ to come back during his life would it be wrong to expect or hope that Christ would come back in his(Paul's) lifetime? (Notice, in no verse in the BIBLE does Paul say, "I WILL be alive when he comes." But only when giving a demonstration of what will happen at the Lord's return, and since, I believe, he thought it could happen at anytime, he of course included himself in with the living; because, he was, at that time, alive! The fact that he demonstrates a TRUTH through an example that happened at that time shows he thought it could happen at that time, but giving an example of something in the year 60 AD, when the event could take place at anytime is not an error! It is simply giving the example under current conditions. If I were to say to you, if I were standing here when a nuclear bomb hit, I would be burned up! If a nuclear bomb hit when I wasn't there, would that make my statement untrue? No, what I said was still accurate, I just wouldn't be burned up; because, I was not in that spot.) I don't see this as an error, only proof of expectation! That expectation is the TRUTH! Paul, James, John, and the writer of Hebrews, in my opinion, suggest by their writings that they expected Christ to return during their lifetimes! Please notice John 21:20-23, would John be incorrect in thinking he MIGHT live to see the return of our Lord? If that EXPECTATION would have made him wrong then our Lord MISLED him. And, I think we both would agree that our Lord could not do that; because, as you said, GOD is Truth! I must say that this debate is interesting and your points are note worthy, but I think it profits us little. I love you in Christ, whatever you believe, but if it be the will of GOD for us to disagree on this subject, so be His will! Please let me know if I've misrepresented anything in this message, and I would love to hear your continued opinions on this subject, but I do surrender for the sake of dissapation. GOD bless! |
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7 | What was the Lord's expectation? | Bible general Archive 1 | Mike P | 3175 | ||
JOH 21:21 Peter therefore seeing him said to Jesus, "Lord, and what about this man?" JOH 21:22 Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!" JOH 21:23 This saying therefore went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?" NASB A broad interpretation of the passage is that our Lord says to Peter. "It is none of you're business what I do with John." "Follow Me!" The passage does prove a few things. 1) The Lord is coming. 2)The Lord has the power to let John remain until His coming. 3)If the Lord had chosen for John to remain until His coming, John would still be with us today. The passage really does not hinder or support an "imminent return". You had quoted the following passage as a support of apostolic belief of the imminent return of our Lord. I would be careful doing that. REV 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. If John had interpreted that as teaching the "imminent return" as meaning that Lord could come back any day now, John's interpretation would be incorrect. We have 2000 years plus or minus of proof that Jesus' coming could not have occurred to date, because He did not come. Is the Lord coming quickly, Yes, but in His time. Why, because He is not slack in His promises. The Lord will return when the Father sends Him. There is not one iota of chance that He will come before or after that point. I believe the Lord will come, I yearn for His coming. I yearn for the day that I will see Him face to face. I yearn for the day that I can bow on my face before Him and worship Him without any carnality in my being. Do I watch the times in which we now live? Yes. Do I want to be ashamed at His coming? NO!!! Do I teach the imminent return of Christ? No. It does not matter to me whether He comes today, or whether He comes 10,000,000 years from now. As Christians we have no excuse to not be watchful. Do we need to watch for spring leaves on the fig tree? Yes. The imminent return idea does not fly, nor is it needed. Lord Bless Mike Piles |
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8 | What was the Lord's expectation? | Bible general Archive 1 | Chris | 3181 | ||
Sorry, last comment: You said; "If John had interpreted that as teaching the "imminent return" as meaning that Lord could come back any day now, John's interpretation would be incorrect." To say someone 'could' do something is not the same as saying, someone 'will' do something. If our Lord wanted to take all of the sea out of the Sea of Galilee 'could' he have done it? OF COURSE HE COULD HAVE!! Just because He did not, does not mean He could not! You said, "We have 2000 years plus or minus of proof that Jesus' coming could not have occurred to date, because He did not come." If I would have wanted to, could I have stuffed myself full of choclate yesterday? Yes, I could have, but I didn't! This does not imply that I was unable at that time, it only implies that I, in fact, did not. And, I quoted several scriptures, not just one. I apologize again! GOD bless! |
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