Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Will unbelievers be raised from Sheol? | Rev 21:8 | Reformer Joe | 31999 | ||
Romans 1 does not just talk about nature attesting to God's glory; it is an indictment of humanity because of their response to that revelation. It goes much farther than saying merely that God is obvious from nature. God is obvious, and man in his unrighteousness suppresses that truth. You are right that the revelation of nature does not teach us our need for salvation. Nature reveals God and His attributes. Man responds by not giving Him the glory, which leads to a downward spiral of sin, idolatry, and approval of others who commit the same acts (Romans 1:18-32). In addition, God gives us our conscience, which is an inward revelation of God's will. You are correct in stating that neither the conscience nor God's revelation in nature is the gospel. Revelation in creation and conscience cannot SAVE us (which agrees with Romans 10:14), but it does INDICT us and CONDEMN us, shutting us all up under sin. The gospel (i.e. the message of salvation) is not part of natural or "general" revelation (i.e. revealed to all humanity), but rather special revelation (i.e. revealed by the Holy Spirit primarily in the proclamation of His written Word). That preaching of the gospel is what Romans 10:14 is referring to. Those people who have not heard the gospel cannot be saved, because the gospel has not been preached to them. They are still condemned, however, because God has revealed Himself and his requirements of perfect obedience to all human beings, both outwardly and inwardly. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23), whether they have heard the gospel or not. People do not go to hell for rejecting Christ; they go to hell for sinning against God the Father. And everyone falls into that category, and everyone knows deep, deep down at some level that they fall into that category. They are just denying the truth. I don't see how you could hold that I am on shaky ground with Romans 1. The chapter is very clear to those who will accept what it says. I would encourage you to go back and read Romans 1-3, without presupposing that there are people truly ignorant of God. If you can take the chapter in its entirety and show me how it doesn't apply to all humanity and its response to a clearly self-revealed God, I would love to hear your interpretation. --Joe! |
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2 | Will unbelievers be raised from Sheol? | Rev 21:8 | EdB | 32007 | ||
Joe We agree, I thought you were saying the Romans 1 revealed the Gospel. I think we are both saying it reveals God and to be become a believer one needs to hear and accept the gospel. We then divide where you rather dogmatically :-) say unless you hear and believe the gospel you are lost. I'm saying if you hear and fail to believe the gospel you are lost but I don't know what happens to people that never heard the gospel. If they are lost then that is just, if on the other hand they are “somehow saved” that also is just. EdB |
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3 | Will unbelievers be raised from Sheol? | Rev 21:8 | Reformer Joe | 32014 | ||
Dogma isn't a bad word, you know! The reason that I cannot embrace an "alternate salvation" for those who haven't heard is the following: 1. Romans 1 condemns all men. 2. We are both very familiar with all of the passages that say that Jesus is THE only way. None of them give the slightest indication that it is the only way for just those people who hear about Him. 3. If there is another way for the pagan to be saved, why did Christ have to die at all? 4. Why evangelize if preaching Christ puts the hearer in an "all-or-nothing" position where he then MUST receive Christ? 5. We have tread this road before, but the gospel has to do with God's mercy toward us, not His justice toward us. I did not receive justice when I was born again; I escaped it, thanks to what Christ had done for me in Palestine 2000 years ago. There is nothing unjust about any sinner going to hell. --Joe! |
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4 | Will unbelievers be raised from Sheol? | Rev 21:8 | EdB | 32016 | ||
Joe I can agree with everything you said but then I come to Luke 12:47-48 And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. [48] But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more. I just can't get that line drawn in the sand. EdB |
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5 | Will unbelievers be raised from Sheol? | Rev 21:8 | Reformer Joe | 32055 | ||
Well, the Luke passage is a tricky one to figure out. I do think we should look at it a little more to see if we can wisely identify who each of the three servants represent. Perhaps we can get some comment from others on the forum rgarding their take on Luke 12:47-48. However, I think that the best rules of biblical interpretation call for letting the clearer passages of Scripture help us to interpret correctly the more difficult to understand. For me, Luke 12 falls toward the latter catergory. However, coming back to Romans 1, I do not see how Paul could have been any clearer in his assessment of why all men are without excuse. Whomever the servants represent in Luke's parable, it would be a contradiction in Scripture to say that there is some excuse that the unevangelized would have when they stand before God in His holiness. By the way, I do appreciate these discussions, Ed! --Joe! |
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