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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Treadway | 51665 | ||
Hello Joe: Seems as if I'm caught in a "Catch-22", since I say my post is my last on this subject, then there is another response, and I can't help myself--have to respond. Maybe this can be the last? :) ------------------------ Take 2 Peter 3: 9 and put verse 15,16 with it: "And remember why he is waiting. He is giving us time to get his message of salvation out to others. Our wise and beloved brother Paul has talked abut these same things in many of his letters." The "time-table" that you refer to is clear throughout, it is "now", "soon", and "near". What is not known to Peter, Paul and the rest, is the precise "day" or "hour". And that's what the disciples want to know, and is understandable that they would try to pin it down. As far as citing the verse, "But don't forget this dear friends, that a day or a thousand years from now is like tomorrow to the Lord," has no real meaning to the current situation. Do you think it assuaged the problem for the disciples? Do you think it helped them with their waiting? Do you even think that they believed it? If that statement was truly meant to provide an answer, then it came up woefully short. And especially short when placed against what Peter says, what Paul says, what Jesus says, what John says, and what the author of Revelations says. Quotes from each: Jesus: Mark 9: 1 "Some of you who are standing here right now will live to see the Kingdom of God arrive in great power!" What can Jesus mean here, except what he says? John: 1John 2: 18 "Dear children, this world's last hour has come. You have heard about the Antichrist who is coming--the one who is against Christ--and already many such persons have appeared. This makes us all the more certain tht the end of the world is near." What John cannot be certain about is the "day" and the "hour". Other than that, what else could he possibly mean? Peter: 1 Peter 4: 7 "The end of the world is coming soon." What is there about the word "soon" that is not understood? Would not the listeners interpret that message to mean within their lifetime? Again, Peter cannot supply the "day" and "hour", but he's clear that it is "soon". Paul: 1 Cor 29: "The important thing to remember is that our remaining time is very short, and so are our opportunities for doing the Lord's work." Paul goes so far as suggesting that disciples refrain from marriage in order to get the message out better. Why? Because, as he says, the time is short (soon). Rev: 22: 6,7 Angel: "...to tell you this will happen soon." 12 Jesus: "I am coming soon." 20 Jesus: "Yes, I am coming soon." ----------------------------------------- Maybe the real question is the simplest of all: What part of the word "soon" is not understood by the readers of the Bible? ------------------------------------------- And Joe, I certainly agree that a person should keep reading, keep studying. But I think it's critical, not only to read the works of the Apologists, but also the works of their critics. A friend pointed out a website a week ago that supplies a wealth of exposure to both sides as they interact. "The Bible Errancy" newsletter by Dennis McKinsey (I think that's the name)is especially because of the "letters to the editor" section, which provides a forum for the critic AND the apologist. What better way to see and "try" to understand the varying perspectives and interpretations. All 192 are available online. Also, I've read many of the LaHaye books, lately "Are We Living in the End Times?" But all these readings are "after the fact", so to speak. First I read the Bible on my own, relied upon my own interpretive skills, or lack thereof. I have a hunch this is going to turn out to be a lifelong pursuit and I may even get it settled once and for all. Hope so. Treadway |
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2 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Reformer Joe | 51713 | ||
Treadway: You wrote: 'Seems as if I'm caught in a "Catch-22", since I say my post is my last on this subject, then there is another response, and I can't help myself--have to respond. Maybe this can be the last? :)' Maybe, but as you have found, it is easy to get drawn into things here... :) You wrote: 'As far as citing the verse, "But don't forget this dear friends, that a day or a thousand years from now is like tomorrow to the Lord," has no real meaning to the current situation. Do you think it assuaged the problem for the disciples? Do you think it helped them with their waiting?' I would assume that it did indeed help them, but that is not the issue. God's revelation is not solely for the purpose of making us feel at ease or comfortable. It does fit in very well to the purpose of Peter's letter. Whether it would assuage you may be another story, but again, God doesn't exist to serve our wants. Regarding Mark 9:1 and parallel passages in the other gospels (particularly Matthew 24), many Bible scholars have adopted what could either be called a "partial preterist" or a "preterist" view, depending on whether one refers to the notion that the Second Coming has already occurred as "preterism" or "hyper-preterism." Essentially, this view holds that the events depicted in the first 35 verses of Matthew 24 refer to the impending destruction of Jerusalem, along with the slaughter of over a million Jews and the razing of the Temple. The rest of the chapter is understood to refer to the Second Coming. Not being heavily transfixed by eschatology, I have not examined each of these views in any great detail, but I wanted to assure you that there is a great deal of difference among Christians regarding the timing of end-times events prophesied in the Old and New Testaments. Like the prophecies regarding the coming Messiah, there was quite a lot of difference among the Jewish population regarding how and when God would bring the deliverer of Israel. Many very intelligent and Bible-believing Christians regard Tim LaHaye as anything but an authority on the future events depicted in the Bible. While I will agree that dispensational pre-millenialism that we see in the "Left Behind" series is currently "the rage," it is by no means the predominant view in church history. Personally, seeing that events such as the glorification of the saints (1 Corinthians 15) have quite obviously not taken place yet, I could not subscribe to "complete" or "hyper-preterism." Therefore, it is possible that the destruction of Jerusalem and the Second Coming are two separate events prophesied by Jesus and the apostles. For a more complete look at these views, I recommend two sources that I have throughly examined, but which analyze differing viewpoints on the end-times events, including the issues that you raise. One is this Web site: http://www.reformed.org/eschaton/index.html and the other is a book by R.C. Sproul called "The Last Days According to Jesus." If not convincing to you, these resources will provide alternatives to those of atheists and "Left Behind." --Joe! |
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3 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Treadway | 51759 | ||
Hello Joe: Boy, cleaning up responses with responses seems never ending. But as I told Hank, a hiatus is in the near future--SOON, if you will. :) I've probably addressed most of what you wrote in my other posts, but would like to comment on LaHaye. (BTW, thanks for the website...always on the lookout for good ones..) LaHaye was a major disappointment, principally because he seemed to live by assertion, even insertion. By the seat of one's pants may be the way to go, in order to make lots of money, but a more seriously intellectual approach, I believe, will pay the best, and the most long lived dividends. Some of my beliefs along this line seem to have been borne out, since the RAPTURE rage has cooled considerably (or so it seems). For a good while there, all I heard was: "Are you Raputure Ready?", but maybe I was watching too much TBN. :) Anyway, his ideas, methods, do not measure high on my barometer. Maybe some on this forum would like to take issue, so I could see what I might be missing? ----------------------------------------- Thanks again for your recommendations. All are welcome, and all do get their day in my court (where I am the judge, the proscector, AND the jury! ) :) Treadway |
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