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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Reformer Joe | 51664 | ||
Treadway: You wrote, regarding 2 Peter 3: "The notion is sinners whose numbers are finite, that is, reflective of the people in that same generation who are not saved yet." No, the whole point of the passage is that God's timetable is NOT out own timetable. What we see in this chapter is Peter's answer to mockers that have said, "If Christ hasn't come yet, then He obviously isn't going to." (v. 3-4). Peter then cites the example of Noah building his ark and God waiting with patience until the ark was completed until His chosen people had been rescued. Obviously Peter did not close the Second Coming into a span of a few decades with this verse: "But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day." --2 Peter 3:8 He then follows that by saying that, just as He did in Noah's day, he is waiting for all of His chosen people to come to repentance before the destruction comes. What this chapter clearly IS showing is that the destruction of the present earth and the new earth will soon follow the Second Coming. How does the preterist answer this charge? Most preterists will say that the earth is going to continue down nature's path for billions of more years before this happens. Not terribly biblical at all, if you ask me. You are correct that the number of sinners are finite, but that is a view that I hold as well. Nowhere does Peter say that the sumber of sinners who are going to come to repentance are already born. In fact, between the time of the ascension of Jesus Christ and the writing of 2 Peter, countless thousands of new sinners had been born as well. With all due respect, you need to evaluate a great number of the sound biblical arguments that are out there pointing out Ingersoll's errors. When evaluating any new teaching (especially one that has not been held by the majority of the church in its 2000-year history), it is important to look at both sides of the issue before making the sweeping conclusion that non-preterists simply have not read their Bibles. --Joe! |
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2 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Treadway | 51665 | ||
Hello Joe: Seems as if I'm caught in a "Catch-22", since I say my post is my last on this subject, then there is another response, and I can't help myself--have to respond. Maybe this can be the last? :) ------------------------ Take 2 Peter 3: 9 and put verse 15,16 with it: "And remember why he is waiting. He is giving us time to get his message of salvation out to others. Our wise and beloved brother Paul has talked abut these same things in many of his letters." The "time-table" that you refer to is clear throughout, it is "now", "soon", and "near". What is not known to Peter, Paul and the rest, is the precise "day" or "hour". And that's what the disciples want to know, and is understandable that they would try to pin it down. As far as citing the verse, "But don't forget this dear friends, that a day or a thousand years from now is like tomorrow to the Lord," has no real meaning to the current situation. Do you think it assuaged the problem for the disciples? Do you think it helped them with their waiting? Do you even think that they believed it? If that statement was truly meant to provide an answer, then it came up woefully short. And especially short when placed against what Peter says, what Paul says, what Jesus says, what John says, and what the author of Revelations says. Quotes from each: Jesus: Mark 9: 1 "Some of you who are standing here right now will live to see the Kingdom of God arrive in great power!" What can Jesus mean here, except what he says? John: 1John 2: 18 "Dear children, this world's last hour has come. You have heard about the Antichrist who is coming--the one who is against Christ--and already many such persons have appeared. This makes us all the more certain tht the end of the world is near." What John cannot be certain about is the "day" and the "hour". Other than that, what else could he possibly mean? Peter: 1 Peter 4: 7 "The end of the world is coming soon." What is there about the word "soon" that is not understood? Would not the listeners interpret that message to mean within their lifetime? Again, Peter cannot supply the "day" and "hour", but he's clear that it is "soon". Paul: 1 Cor 29: "The important thing to remember is that our remaining time is very short, and so are our opportunities for doing the Lord's work." Paul goes so far as suggesting that disciples refrain from marriage in order to get the message out better. Why? Because, as he says, the time is short (soon). Rev: 22: 6,7 Angel: "...to tell you this will happen soon." 12 Jesus: "I am coming soon." 20 Jesus: "Yes, I am coming soon." ----------------------------------------- Maybe the real question is the simplest of all: What part of the word "soon" is not understood by the readers of the Bible? ------------------------------------------- And Joe, I certainly agree that a person should keep reading, keep studying. But I think it's critical, not only to read the works of the Apologists, but also the works of their critics. A friend pointed out a website a week ago that supplies a wealth of exposure to both sides as they interact. "The Bible Errancy" newsletter by Dennis McKinsey (I think that's the name)is especially because of the "letters to the editor" section, which provides a forum for the critic AND the apologist. What better way to see and "try" to understand the varying perspectives and interpretations. All 192 are available online. Also, I've read many of the LaHaye books, lately "Are We Living in the End Times?" But all these readings are "after the fact", so to speak. First I read the Bible on my own, relied upon my own interpretive skills, or lack thereof. I have a hunch this is going to turn out to be a lifelong pursuit and I may even get it settled once and for all. Hope so. Treadway |
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3 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Ray | 51696 | ||
Hi Treadway, Are you talking about this being your last post on the subject or the last post on the forum? I ask this because you asked about other Christian forums to go to. For 1Peter 4:7, "The end of the world is coming soon." was your quote of it. What translation was that? The NASB and NKJ speaks of the end of all things. What about the words "all things" is not understood? I would say that you could forget about "soon" and look into the other things of God. Perhaps looking at the 23 "things" of Philippians would be a good start. Remember John 6:68 wherever you go in your searches and inquiries. From the heart, Ray |
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4 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Treadway | 51714 | ||
Hello Ray: You asked: "...last post on subject or forum..." Actually both, but as you see I must have told a whopper! And I just noted that Joe! just posted a response and remarked how "easy it was to get sucked in here..." I guess I'm finding that out. :) You ask: "What translation..." of 1 Peter 4:7, and it was from the The Book. I have the KJV, The Living Bible, also... You suggest: "...forget about 'soon' and look into other things of God..." I say, of course, but would amend that to look into ALL things of God, and "soon" is one of them. Its importance cannot be overstated, cannot be overemphasized. For example, here is a "soon": 1 Peter 1:10-13 Peter talking to Jewish Christians: "This salvation was something the prophets did not fully understand. Though they wrote about it, they had many questions as to what it all could mean. They wondered about the Spirit of Christ within them was talking about, for he told them to write down the events which, since then, have happened to Christ: his suffering, and his great glory afterwards. And they wonder when and to whom all this would happen. 12 They were finally told that these things would not occur during their lifetime, but long years later, during yours. And now at last the Good News has been plainly announced to all of us. It was preached to us in the power of the same heaven-sent Holy spirit who spoke to them; nd it is all so strange and wonderful that even the angels in heaven would give a great deal to know more about it. 13 So now you can look forward soberly and intelligently to more of God's kindness to you when Jesus Christ returns." -------------------------------------- The above is a very important "soon". Point blank, not in the prophets lifetime but in the lifetime of the Jewish Christians Peter was addressing. About as direct as it can get. All the "soon's" do add up, and should not be ignored. In my judgement, they cannot be ignored but must be addressed. Is there a different take on the above? A different interpretation? I'd be glad to hear it....Treadway |
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5 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Hank | 51725 | ||
Treadway, I've read all your posts thus far and had meant to say hello to you sooner...... (A) You impress me as a true searcher and not one of the garden-variety flakes we get on here from time to time..... (B) I'm one of 'them thar' Bible-totin' foot-stomping Baptists possibly not a great deal unlike what you used to be but, I gather, have cooled off a few degrees :-) ..... (C) Do hang on with us for a spell longer. Some of these guys and gals on this forum know what they're doing and post some good stuff. Others come along, alas, who don't really know whether they're pitching or catching. Me? Well, you may not learn all that much from my posts except that I'm sort of a gad-fly who buzzes around commending the good, reasonable and Bible-oriented posts and not being very flattering at all of posts that are less than commendable..... In all seriousness, Treadway, I'd like to see you stick around, because I've a feeling that you may actually find something good here, something that will be of real value to you. --Hank | ||||||
6 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Treadway | 51756 | ||
Hello Hank: Thanks for the "invite". But it sure takes up some of a person's time, doesn't it? :) As far as "actually find something good here", I think you're onto something. For sure, there is a wide range of folks with even wider ranges of beliefs and interpretations. To learn about all of those is an education all by itself. But may have to take a "forced" hiatus, anyway, just to clean up the kitchen. "Sooning" has turned out to be very hard work. :) Treadway |
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