Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Morant61 | 51923 | ||
Greetings Treadway! My friend, I think you misunderstood my 'gnat' remark! :-) I wasn't saying that studying about the second of Christ was a 'gnat' like endevour. I was saying that critics of the Bible focus on 'gnats' - like the insistence that 'soon' must mean 'in my lifetime', while they swallow whole camels of faulty logic - without even using Tums! I've already given my view on the meaning of 'soon', so I won't go there again. However, I would like to address your point about Nero and the mark of the Beast. There are three very significant problems with identifying the mark as standing for Nero. 1) The verse does not explain how this number is obtained or even what it means. Therefore, one must assume that the writer intended his readers to assign numerical values to the letters and add them up. This is a major assumption. 2) Secondly, the variant reading of '616' as oppossed to '666' is very weak. '666' doesn't work with Nero at all, yet it is the far better attested reading. 3) Finally, even the '616' reading only works with a little 'help'. Here is what Leon Morris says in his Tyndale New Testament Commentary on Revelation: "In modern times the most favoured solution is 'Nero Caesar' (if the final letter be omited to give the equivalent of the Latin spelling of the name the total is 616, the variant reading). But to get this result we must use the Greek form of the Latin name, transliterated into Hebrew characters, and with a variant spelling at that (the vowel letter y has to be omitted from qysr)." (pg. 169). This seems like an awful lot of 'help' to force the word to mean something which is not apparent in the text! ;-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Treadway | 51926 | ||
Hello Tim: You wrote: 1) The verse does not explain how this number is obtained or even what it means. Therefore, one must assume that the writer intended his readers to assign numerical values to the letters and add them up. This is a major assumption My reply: Gotta blame those "paraphasing" Bibles. The Living Bible and the book say: "...the numerical values of the letters in his name add to 666..." I'll note the sources. Howver, even in the KJV it says: "...let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast..." I assume these alternate Bibles took that to mean, "...those who are able..." Is it true? I don't know. Does it make sense? Does to me....Treadway :) |
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3 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Morant61 | 51930 | ||
Greetings Treadway! The Greek literally says, "Wisdom is here: He who has understanding let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is a number of man, and his number is six hundred sixty six." Whether calculate here means to assign numberical values and add them is questionable! It simply doesn't give us enough information. Further, as I demonstrated, 'Nero' only works with a lot of manipulation, even if summing is assummed. To take this verse though to imply that 'Nero' is the Beast and that therefore Christ was supposed to return in the first century is not warranted! The best approach I have read seems to be that of the Bible Knowledge Commentary. It says of this verse and the number: " Literature from the early church fathers, however, reveals the same confusion and variety of meanings that exist today, so probably it is best to leave this puzzle unsolved. Probably the safest conclusion is that of Thomas F. Torrance, “This evil trinity 666 apes the Holy Trinity 777, but always falls short and fails” (The Apocalypse Today, p. 86)." Who knows? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Treadway | 51934 | ||
Hello Tim: You write: "..who knows" concerning 666. True. But if true, that it was supposed to be Nero, then it does fit snugly into my theme. It's certainly not the end-all, but a part of a definite whole. Does it make sense? Maybe. Especially since numerical values were assigned, and some have deduced it to be Nero. Then take that with the reality of the "times" of Rev. and then compare the "soon" emphasis with the preceding NT. A case can be made. Does it sway your mind's jury? That's up to you.... Treadway |
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5 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Morant61 | 51937 | ||
Greetings Treadway! Does it sway my mind's jury? Honestly, not in the slightest (because of the 3 points I listed above). It's like say that 'Nero' is the answer if you spell in French, drop the last three letters, combine the English term for 'ruler' and lo and behold - it all adds up to 616 - which isn't even the correct reading of the Greek to begin with! ;-) Do you see my problem? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Where do I go from here? | 2 Pet 3:4 | Treadway | 51941 | ||
Hello Tim: You say: Do you see my problem? ---------------------------------------- Sure. After a "summation", it is always in the hands (minds) of the individual jury members. But I do wonder: what if "Nero" and 666 is true? How would that change perspectives? Would that destroy the Rapture industry, just for one of many changes.....but ah, that's a whole new avenue to travel....certainly no energy or time for that.... :) Treadway |
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