Results 1 - 7 of 7
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 164077 | ||
Mark, If I have given you the impression that I am arguing with you, that was not my intention and I apologize for the anything I have stated that may have sounded argumentative. My goal on these boards is not to try a prove that my views are correct and others are wrong but just to share how I believe God has spoken to me and be encouraged with how god has spoken to others. |
||||||
2 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | mark d seyler | 164082 | ||
Hi Atdcross, My purpose on this forum is to learn more about the Bible, and true doctrine, and to promote the learning of true doctrine by all who visit us. You have presented a patently false teaching, and I will not let it stand unchallenged. If I did, I would be derelict in my duty before God. God speaks to us in the Written Word, which is first and foremost. Anything, anything that does not agree with His Word is Not From Him. I would suggest that unless you wish to become guilty of leading others astray, that you limit yourself to those teachings that wholly and completely agree with His Word, the Bible. Love in Christ Mark |
||||||
3 | Sickness Brings God Glory? | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 165880 | ||
Your purpose for being on the forum is commendable. I apologize if my views have caused you distress. Unfortunately, I do not agree that (1) I am leading others astray, and (2) that my views, at this point, are not Biblical. As best I know, the doctrine of healing, in its basic formulation, is in agreement with the whole of revelation. I encourage you, and anyone else who feels that what I believe in is not Biblical, to buy the scholarly book, "Israel's Divine Healer," by Dr. Michael L. Brown; it is part of the "Studies in Old Testament Biblical Theology" series edited by Willem A. VanGemeren and Tremper Longman, III. Although I have not yet read the book, I am listening to a tape series based on the book (afterwards, I plan to read it). A few basics that I have learned (and have tried to point out as I see it from the texts without reference to Dr. Brown's thoughts): 1. The idea of healing, in OT thought, included both spiritual and physical healing; there was never a dichotomy then as we have in modern times. 2. The word root used for "healing", which is "rapha", should mean to "restore" or "make whole", not "heal" (although it may be included in the meaning, it is not the basic meaning). 3. In ancient OT times, any god that was unable to heal physically, by that inability proved themselves not a god. Now just a few questions to stimulate thinking: 1. If sickness is for the purpose of bring God glory and the believer is obligated to give God glory, why do Christians:(a) Pray for God to heal them when they are sick? (b) Pray for God to make them sick when they are healthy? 2. If a believer being sick is God’s will, is not the one praying for their healing praying against God’s will? 3. Concerning Isaiah 53:4. (a) When does it say Jesus carried our “sicknesses” and “weaknesses”? (b)When was Jesus “stricken, smitten of God”? Of course, I would not want to distress you or anyone else by furthering these discussions. If you would rather not continue the discussion, I will respect that and post no further. If anyone else wishes to take up the discussion, please be my guest. Again, I want to remind everyone that my purpose here also is not to prove but to share. |
||||||
4 | Sickness Brings God Glory? | 1 Pet 2:24 | mark d seyler | 165884 | ||
Hi Atdcross, I feel that we have covered this ground sufficiently so that we know where each other stands, and the basis each has for their belief. That being said, I will add just a couple of questions alongside yours, and leave them for the other readers to ponder. 1. Why does Ephesians 5:20 instruct us to give thanks "for all things"? 2. Does anyone besides me pray that God would heal mine or another's sickness, but only if that is according to His will, if He purpose has been served and it is time for healing, and otherwise, to give us endurance to run our race? 3. Why does the Bible tell us that so many good things come from our being afflicted? In my humanity, I would rather you were right. I don't like being sick, or otherwise afflicted. In my spirit, I will submit myself to whatever the Sovereign Lord has determined will make me like Jesus. God bless you! Love in Christ, Mark |
||||||
5 | Sickness Brings God Glory? | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 165914 | ||
Thanks for your response, Mark. Please allow me to leave a response also for "other readers to ponder". Please note, although we may know where each other stands, there is no problem (on my part, at least), since no one is trying to convince the other, to exchange views on the different texts that support each other's position. 1. In accordance to Eph 5:20, does anyone ever thank God that children are being raped, that the cancer patient is going through pain? 2.If (1) sickness is God's will for believers and (2) sickness brings God glory, why (1) pray for healing in the first place, and (2) if we do get healed, why not pray we get sick again? 3. The good things that come out of affliction (1) do not come out automatically, (2) depend on the person's response. Suffering can either bring a person nearer or further from God. Believing that God's intention is that his children be healthy is not a matter of "humanity" but a matter of God's word (Psalm 103:3; 3 John 2; Malachi 4:2; Matthew 7:11). From my perspective, believing God's desire is to heal all who are sick (Jesus' practice in the Gospels) and for us to be healthy is, at least, one thing that "the Sovereign Lord has determined will make me like Jesus". There are many verses in the Bible where God grants healing. In all seriousness (there is no sarcasm intended at all), (1) I have not yet found a verse in the Bible where God promises sickness. (2) Matt 4:23 does not read that Jesus went making people sick. |
||||||
6 | Sickness Brings God Glory? | 1 Pet 2:24 | BradK | 165918 | ||
Dear atdcross, If I may interject on this topic with a couple of comments. I first want to commend you for the humble attitude you display in approaching this debated topic:-) Your lack of a contentious spirit goes a long way toward amicable discussion. Agreeing to disagree in keeping with Rom. 14:1 is a sign of maturity! Here's a verse to consider: Job 2:10 "But he said to her, "You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?" In all this Job did not sin with his lips." I think we would agree that God is sovereign ( Ps. 115:3) and He can and does heal all whom He desires. The major challenge I have with the doctrine of God healing all, always and that it's His will for us to be without sickness is twofold: 1. It lacks the support of the entirety of scripture. There are numerous instances of various diseases and infirmities given in both the OT and NT. Empirically, what of Paul and Timothy and even, Jim Elliot or Joni Erikson Tada? 2. It lacks the historical support of Orthodoxy and the Church fathers and divines of old. It is a relatively "newer" doctrine more or less fueled by F.F. Bosworth's, " Christ, the Healer". What did almost 2000 years of scholarship and exegesis miss? I believe we could safely say that God does not decree sickness, but by His permissive will allows it. While it is true that there are many verses where God grants healing, there are numerous examples of Him not (cf. Job. 2:10, 2 Cor. 12:8-9, 2 Tim. 4:20, Heb. 11:36ff). I might point to Deut. 28:22 as an example of God promising sickness (by Israel's disobedience): "The LORD will smite you with consumption and with fever and with inflammation and with fiery heat and with the sword and with blight and with mildew, and they will pursue you until you perish." Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
||||||
7 | Sickness Brings God Glory? | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 166460 | ||
Thanks for the encouraging word. Job 2:10: (1) We know from the prologue that it is Satan who is buffeting Job, not God (although God allowed it). (2) Job’s experience is unique. It does not reflect the answer as to why believers, in general, suffer. With respect to your comment, God “can and does heal all whom he desires” and all whom he desires to heal are his people through their faith and obedience. This is clearly demonstrated in Jesus’ ministry. As far as examples outside of the Bible, Jim Elliot was martyred, as is the way of every believer who follows Jesus; it is also a promised experience for all who seriously take up their Cross. As someone said, the call of the Gospel is the call to die. However, Elliot is not an example of the idea that God wants his children to be sick. Joni Erickson’s condition does not necessarily support any scriptural truth; the fact that she (or anyone else) is a paraplegic does not necessarily warrant the idea that such is God’s will. Please find in the Bible where it says or clear instances that show God (a) blesses by making his chosen people sick, (b) desires believers to be sick, (c) promises or, at least, warns he will not heal those who believe and are obedient to him. Timothy’s sickness or weakness was healed by proper diet; divine intervention was not necessary. The idea that the apostle Paul had a sickness that was not healed is conjecture. Throughout Church history it is recorded that God has been healing. Eusebius asserts that idolaters “were now liberated by the power of Christ through the teaching and miracles of his messengers.” Origen (c.200) stated that Christians practiced casting out demons. Tertullian claimed, “the noblest Christian life is ‘to exorcise evil spirits – to perform cures – to live to God’.” “2000 years of scholarship and exegesis” apparently missed a lot! I agree it is not God’s desire that His people be sick. Sickness is permitted primarily as the consequence of sin and the judgment of God against it. As far as “numerous examples” of God not healing: Job 2:10 is covered above. It is mere conjecture to interpret 2 Cor 12:8-9 as referring to sickness. I agree he was sick, but where in 2 Timothy does it say Erastus was not healed? Heb 11:36 speak of persecution, not sickness. Deut. 28:22: I am not arguing sickness as judgment for disobedience. That is a given. I am arguing sickness as something God desires for His people. Note also God’s promises to heal should Israel obey (v.1-14). If Israel disobeys, they become sick; if they obey, they will be healthy. Pretty straightforward. In any case, God did not desire or want the people of Israel to be sick. |
||||||