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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 163990 | ||
Part 2. With respect to the apostle Paul, to say that his “thorn in the flesh” was sickness is merely speculation, at least, according to my reference readings. It cannot be determined what he actually meant by the phrase. There are different interpretations other than that it was a physical sickness. Regarding the apostle’s “bodily illness” in Galatians: (1) The NAS margin has literally, “weakness of the flesh.” (2) The Greek word translated “infirmity,” as gathered from a few references, seems not to necessarily mean “physical sickness” (cf. Rom 8:26; 15:1; 2 Cor 11:30; 12:5,9; Heb 5:2; 7:28) (3) I assume the certainty of meaning would need to be gathered by the context and in Galatians it is vague. (4) Could this mention of an “infirmity” refer to something acquired from being persecuted and not so much a sickness as a physical deformity? I admit, God can heal deformities but if obtained for the sake of Christ, it may remain on him as proof of his struggle for the gospel (Gal 6:17). Yet, even if it is admitted that Paul makes reference to being sick, all it shows is that believers can get sick (something that is not denied). It does not support the idea that Father (1) desires his children to be sick, (2) does not intend for all to be healthy, (3) will not heal in answer to prayers of faith. In John 11:4, it was not the sickness that resulted in death itself that exhibited God’s glory but the act of healing (v.45; 12:9,17). The quote, “I'm just saying that after we've asked for healing, we need to submit to God's sovereign will”, is obviously at odds with the Biblical writer who declared, “Is any sick among you? …let the [elders] pray over him…and the prayer of faith shall save the sick and the Lord will raise him up…” (Jam 5:14-15; cf. Matt 7:7-11). James seems to suggest it is always God’s will to heal, therefore, after we’ve asked, we are not told to “submit to God’s sovereign will”; we are commanded to believe God will answer (Mark 11:24; Heb 11:6). To believe God is submission required. Again, I offer these observations not for the purpose of provoking debate, argument, or bad feelings but just to share my faith with others of God’s family. And, as Kalos took the time and effort to respond to my posting, I only felt to exhibit its value by a more thoughtful answer, with all due respect, however contrary it may be, in return. |
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2 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | BradK | 163991 | ||
Dear atdcross, Greetings! I would concur with your statement that "With respect to the apostle Paul, to say that his “thorn in the flesh” was sickness is merely speculation" We don't know WHAT his affliction was- that much is true. However, I would take issue with your contention that healing is provided in atonement for the following reasons: 1. Scripture in no way supports this in it's entirety; 2. You would be at odds with some near 2000 years of Church history This appears to be a relatively new- and by that I mean a 20th and 21st Century- interpretation. My study leads me to believe this was more an "invention" of F.W. Bosworth- not sound exegesis. The Church fathers didn't embrace this view nor did scholars such as John Gill or C.H. Spurgeon. I understand and appreciate your intent but cannot endorse that physical healing is and was the purpose of Christs' atoning sacrifice. Sin is a terminal disease. Spurgeon said: "Sin dwelleth in us, and will be deadly in the case of every one among us, without a solitary exception, unless we accept the remedy which God has provided." Speaking the Truth in Love, BradK |
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3 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 163994 | ||
Thanks BradK for your input. I do not see where Scripture disallows it but that is not to suggest any silence confirms it. I do not see where the Bible, especially in Isa 53 and the Gospels and Acts, is silent on the subject. I am not familiar with Bosworth. And there are certain views Gill and Spurgeon hold that I do not think the Church Father's agree with; nor do I think the Church Fathers were doctrinally correct in every instance. First of all, let me clarify that I did not mean to suggest that the purpose for the atonement was physical healing. Christ atoned for our sins in order to make the "whole man wholly" restored to God in every way, first, for our sins and, second,in order that we might obtain the blessings of God (all this would result in God receiving glory, which is the preeminent goal of salvation). If you will note in the reading of the Gospels, that in every case where forgiveness was administered by Christ, physical healing occured; and in every place where physical healing occured, forgiveness of sin is clearly implied as being given. But, maybe it would be misleading to suggest that physical healing is in the atonement. Rather, maybe we can say that man's wholeness, spiritually and physically, mentally and emotionally is found through faith in the work of Christ on the Cross. But, unfurtunately, that may diminish somewhat the explicit significance, which the Gospels seem to place on physical healing (and demonic deliverance). Second, I did not mean to imply that we need not physically deteriorate and die. The "wages sin is death" and no one can avoid it. I also doubt if anyone of 80 years is as vigorous as in is twenties. But although we must die, that does not mean we have to die physically sick or mentally diseased, slowly and painfully, or, maybe, even, outside of persecution, tragically and violently (Psa 91; 103:4-5). Therefore, I cannot disagree with Spurgeon that sin is "deadly." However, the Psalmist still declares that along with God forgiving all my sins, he also heals all of my diseases. For me, it is not so much trying to figure out whether or not God desires to heal and heals - for me, that is a given in the Bible - but to believe him at his Word that he does heal irrespective of what position the Church Fathers, Gill, or Spurgeon held (along with 2000 years of Church History). |
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