Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | kalos | 160440 | ||
'Physical healing - Is it guaranteed in Christ's atonement? '"...with his stripes we are healed." 'No, while ultimate physical healing is in the atonement (a healing we will enjoy in our resurrection bodies), healing of our bodies while in the mortal state (prior to our death and resurrection) is not guaranteed in the atonement. 'Moreover, it is important to note that the Hebrew word for healing (rapha) can refer not just to physical healing but to spiritual healing. The context of Isaiah 53:4 indicates that spiritual healing is in view. In verse 5 we are clearly told, "He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed" (v. 5). Because "transgressions" and "iniquities" set the context, spiritual healing from the misery of man's sin is in view. 'Further, there are numerous verses in Scripture which substantiate the view that physical healing in mortal life is not guaranteed in the atonement and that it is not always God's will to heal. [] 'The apostle Paul couldn't heal Timothy's stomach problem (1 Timothy 5:23) nor could he heal Trophimus at Miletus (2 Timothy 4:20) or Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25-27). [] 'Paul spoke of "a bodily illness" he had (Galatians 4:13-15). He also suffered a "thorn in the flesh" which God allowed him to retain (2 Corinthians 12:7-9). [] 'God certainly allowed Job to go through a time of physical suffering. [] 'In none of these cases is it stated that the sickness was caused by sin or unbelief. [] 'Nor did Paul or any of the others act as if they thought their healing was guaranteed in the atonement. They accepted their situations and trusted in God's grace for sustenance. [] 'It is noteworthy that on one occasion Jesus indicated that sickness could be for the glory of God (John 11:4). [] 'There are numerous verses in Scripture which reveal that our physical bodies are continuously running down and suffering various ailments. Our present bodies are said to be perishable and weak (1 Corinthians 15:42-44). Paul said "our outer man is decaying" (2 Corinthians 4:16). Death and disease will be a part of the human condition until that time when we receive resurrection bodies that are immune to such frailties (1 Corinthians 15:51-55). 'Am I saying we shouldn't pray for healing? No, not at all. I'm just saying that after we've asked for healing, we need to submit to God's sovereign will. He may have a purpose in allowing our illness.' Author: Dr. Ron Rhodes of Reasoning from the Scriptures Ministries. ____________________ http://christiananswers.net/ q-eden/rfsm-healing.html (search words: "heal" AND "atone" AND "Isa") |
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2 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 163987 | ||
Having some spare time, I hope it is okay that I take the opportunity to share some insights supporting the view that physical healing is included in the atonement. I would like to respond (in 2 parts) to certain verses posted by Kalos (ID#160440). Part 1. As I discussed previously (ID#161083), to limit the reference in Isa 53 to spiritual healing only is not just inconsistent with the text, it also would make Matthew’s use of the text erred since he sees Jesus physically healing the sick as fulfillment of Messianic activity. Now the question of whether physical as well as spiritual healing is in the atonement can be answered by determining when in his life Jesus, according to Isaiah, bore our sickness and the chastisement that made him whole, and was bruised for our healing. Was it not at the same moment he was “Smitten and afflicted by God,” when he was “wounded because of our sins, crushed because of our "iniquities,” and “the Lord visited on him the guilt of us all” (cf. Tanakh)? Was not that moment at the Cross? At the Cross, Isaiah prophesied that he was punished for “our sins” and “our sickness” (v.4a; 5a, Tanakh). If "transgressions" and "iniquities" set the context for spiritual healing, then “disease” (v.3b; 10a), and “sickness” (v.4a) should also set the context, which would, therefore, suggest both spiritual and physical healing is considered. Again, this is not to say that healing is guaranteed (and neither do I mean that a person will necessarily, although possible, never be sick all throughout his life). Even forgiveness is not guaranteed or automatic just because Jesus Christ died on the Cross for sinners and neither for a believer who sins refusing to repent (Matt 6:15; 19:35). However, physical healing for the sick, like forgiveness, is provided. As I see it, in Timothy’s case, the “sickness” concerned his diet; a change in diet was the reason for his stomach having problems. Once Timothy followed Paul’s advise, it is assumed in the text, he would be cured. Therefore, this verse cannot be used to support the idea that God intends some to be sick. Regarding Trophimus, even if admitting the apostle was not able to secure a healing for him, should that one occasion in itself nullify the many verses that say God desires and promises, can and does heal and that such healing is provided in the atonement as Isaiah 53 suggests? Epaphroditus, true was sick, but he was healed as v.27 suggests: “…God had mercy on him…I sent him…” Whether or not he was healed by Paul’s hand is irrelevant. The fact is, Epaphroditus was healed. Should we assume that the Psalmist, who declared, “[God] heals all your diseases” (Psa 103:3), was not inspired but rather mistaken? Job, it is true, was sick but God healed him completely. In any case, is there the suggestion that Job’s case is, rather than unique, the same as every believer who suffers? I do not think it is; Job is the exception to the rule. |
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3 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | mark d seyler | 163993 | ||
Hi Atdcross, To say that healing is provided in the atonement the same as salvation is provided in the atonement of Christ would necessitate that we would all be completely, permanently healed and healthy from the moment we are born again, because this is how we are saved. When we are born again, we are completely and permanently spiritually alive. If physical healing were a part of that, then we would be completely and permanently healthy. The healing Matthew recorded was, as you say, Messianic activity, However! it was before the cross, and does not set a standard. By these healings we know Jesus was the Messiah. We do not, for instance, expect that everytime we open the fridge, it will have even more loaves and fish, since, after all, Jesus multiplied the loaves and fish. Lazarus was sick, and died from his sickness, so that the Son of God would be glorified. A man was born blind so that the power of God would be revealed through him. These examples show that there can be Godly purpose to illness and physical defect. Paul wrote that "all things work for the good" of the called of God, because we are predestinated to be comformed to the image of Jesus. If I become sick, God is not in heaven saying "Oooops! That one got through!" He is saying, these things happen because they serve My purpose. The lesson we learn from Job is that no matter what the cause, or the apparent cause, the things that happen to God's own happen because it serves God's purpose. God wants us to be conformed to the image of Christ, and has predestinated our lives to produce that result. Now, when you say "God does not desire for us to be sick", I would agree with you that ultimately, no, He does not. But in so much as it serves His purpose, He desires for us to be conformed to the image of Christ, and if and when sickness helps produce that result, then yes, He desires us to be sick. You say that you think Job is the exception to the rule, but that is not a Biblical statement. We are even told to remember Job as we endure our suffering. I would say he is not the exception, but that he is the example. Love in Christ, Mark |
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4 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 164011 | ||
Hi Mark I disagree that my position “would necessitate that we would all be completely, permanently healed and healthy from the moment we are born again” because: (a) we are not totally released from the possibility of committing sinful acts or engaging in sinful thoughts and desires; (b) we are not “completely and permanently spiritually alive”; (c) Jesus’ death did not yet fully and automatically do away with demonic rule and activity (Eph 2:2; 1 Jn 5:19). It seems to me that if Jesus’ Messianic activity “does not set a standard”, then (a) one could legitimately argue that Jesus’ moral character as holy does not set a standard because “it was before the cross”; (b) it is at odds with Jesus’ command to “Go into all the world” and, among other things equally important, “cast out demons” and “lay hands on the sick” (Mark 16:15ff; cf. Jam 5:14; Matt 10:8; Luke 9:2; 1 Cor 12:9). There are other reasons why your statement seems to be erred but I only have time to submit two. Even Jesus went without experiencing hunger; his fridge was not always filled but God did sustain him physically. In any case, I do not understand what God’s material provision has to do with healing. It is one thing to be hungry and another thing to be sick. As far as Lazarus and the blind man, there was no godly purpose for their illness but there was a godly purpose in Jesus healing them. From my perspective, the related texts show that illness has no Godly purpose and that is why God desires to heal. Healing has a godly purpose. If you get sick God does not have to say, “Oops!” It is not at all his fault that you got sick. We are predestined to be made into the image of Christ. It does not say we are predestined to be sick. My perspective upon what we learn from Job is different. However, because we are told to remember Job and emulate his perseverance in suffering, does not mean everyone Christian (or the majority) is sick because their integrity is directly challenged by Satan; not unless he can be described as a man who is “blameless, upright, fearing God, and turning away from evil” and “there is no one like him on the earth” (Job 1”1,8). I disagree that God desires us to be sick because sickness serves no purpose (unless it is within the context of judgment); that’s why He desires to heal. |
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5 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | CDBJ | 164014 | ||
You said the following, “Even Jesus went without experiencing hunger;” Who is right, you or, Matthew 4:2 And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. As for sickness, or what ever tag you would like to put on it, the reason we get sick is because we are still at home in these bodies of death and sin is still in the world and we are still subject to the results of sin while residing in these bodies. Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? None of us will have a perfect bill of health until we are separated from these bodies of corruption. How many of the people, maintaining the same prospective that you are trying convince this forum of, celebrated their 200th birthday this year and are a picture of health? That’s what I thought, CDBJ |
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6 | did Jesus die for our sins or sickness | 1 Pet 2:24 | atdcross | 164015 | ||
CDBJ, Typographical error. I meant to say, even Jesus experienced hunger. I ain't perfected perfection, yet... |
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