Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Moral, Ceremonial, and Civil law | James 2:10 | Reformer Joe | 19283 | ||
You wrote: "Was your 'new self' created in righteousness and holiness or not? Eph 4:24 in my Bible says that it was." So does mine. In the preceding verses it also implies that the "old self" is still with us as well. The metaphor here is to garments, taking one off and putting it away and putting the other one on. Paul is speaking to Ephesian believers, so telling them to put the old self away would indicate to most individuals that the old self has not disappeared in a practical, day-to-day sense. Then Paul goes on in the following verse to tell the Ephesians to follow the Ninth Commandment. Then a few verses later, he tells them to stop stealing (number 6). Of course Christ exemplified the moral law, but where do we find that law stated? You know where... I am not trying to insult you by pointing out that your views are in line with Catholicism. The fact that you have no concerns about rejecting historic Protestantism in favor of the Pope should be a red flag, however. It really never hurts to examine other points of view in detail. If nothing else, it gives you the ability to more intelligently refute them. My Bible has the same Hebrews 10:14 that yours does. So you say that you are not perfect, but perfected in a real, present sense. Please explain the difference between the two, since I do not understand the distinction you are trying to make. --Joe! |
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2 | Joe, who is ya, man? | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19324 | ||
Joe, So you would say that you have a 'new self' and also an 'old self'. (My Bible says that my 'old self' the 'old man' was crucified with Christ - Gal 2:20, Rom 6:6) So you are a new creation in Christ - 2 Cor 5:17, but you are still the same old sinner. This would explain much of the reason you are confused, dear brother. A house divided against itself cannot stand. Well, it can for a while, but it will be unstable in all ways. Hmmm...interesting theology. A new creation but still a sinner. A new self but still an old self. Created in righteousness but still striving for it. Under grace but under law. In Adam but also in Christ. A slave to sin but also a slave to righteousness. Given righteousness as a gift but you don't posess it. Psychology would say that you are suffering from split personality disorder. Of course, very little psychology is biblically based. But I would say that the effect is the same. You don't know who YOU are in Christ. Oh, you know who Christ is in you. But you don't know who He has made you. As a stated, my old self, my old man WAS (past tense) crucified with Christ. That old fallen 'in Adam' spirit is dead and gone. He was crucified and buried with Christ 2000 years ago. Then Christ gave me a new spirit created in righteousness and holiness that is permanently joined with Him. Now, granted, my new spirit indwelt by Christ's Spirit lives in the same old body. And it still has to work through my unredeemed soul - mind, will, and emotions. And it still has my 'flesh', my self-sufficiency to deal with. But these things are not ME. They are in the members of my body, but they are not ME - Rom 7:18. Thanks be to God that though I was a slave of sin (I had no choice), I became obedient (past tense) from my heart to that form of teaching that was committed to me (the gospel, Christ in me) and, having been freed from sin (no longer a slave to it, the old sinful self was crucified) I became (past tense) a slave of righteousness...but now that I have been (past tense) freed from sin and now enslaved to God, I derive my benefit (Christ in me, my hope of glory), resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life - Rom 6:17,18,22. Yeehaw! Still a new creation, Bill Mc |
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3 | Joe, who is ya, man? | James 2:10 | Reformer Joe | 19327 | ||
Before we start traversing through all your pet verses in the New Testament, let's stick with Ephesians 4. If the old self is no longer existant, how can Paul tell Ephesian believers to put it away? That would be akin to a "watch out for the cliff" sign in Kansas. I am simply asking why Paul tells us to "put away" the old self and its lusts, and to "put on" the new one if the new self is the only one left, according to you. How can one put away something that isn't even there? --Joe! |
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4 | Joe, who is ya, man? | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19338 | ||
Joe, Because they didn't know they had a new self. They wore 'the Law' as their righteous garments. Paul says that we have been clothed with Christ. This is precisely the revelation that Paul is trying to make - you are a new creature inside, you don't wear the same old clothing. Put on the new. If you keep on sinning, your body and soul will become a slave to it. I'm a Christian but if I go get drunk ever night, I'll start serving alcohol with my body and soul. So put off the deeds of the flesh and sinful actions because that is not who you are anymore. Bill Mc |
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5 | Joe, who is ya, man? | James 2:10 | Reformer Joe | 19348 | ||
Bill: I see no reference to Law here at all. The thrust here is against the licentiousness of the Gentiles who do not know Christ. Where do you conclude that legalism is in view here? Secondly, if this "truth" you put forward is so central and essential to a correct understanding of the gospel of Christ, how in the world could these regenerate individuals NOT know that they had a new self? Even if they could not detect it themselves, I doubt an apostle of God would only at this point mention this "essential point." --Joe! |
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6 | Joe, who is ya, man? | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19353 | ||
Joe, How could they not know? Because they had probably not been taught. Why do you think that the NT was written? It was to teach us of the wonderful mystery of the gospel, that 'Christ in you' is not just for the Jew, but also for the Gentile. You see a similar pattern in 2 Cor 5. In verse 18,19 Paul says that God has reconciled the whole world to Himself. Then He says that, in light of the fact that God has done this, BE (acknowledge, accept it, bank on it) reconciled - Vs. 20. If we view this without any discernment, we would say, "Why does Paul tell them to be reconciled if God has already done it? If it is something that God has done and it is an accomplished fact, then why would Paul tell THEM to do it?" Faith is putting your trust in what God has done. The Bible says that Christ was slain before the foundation of the world. But we know as a historical fact that it happened 2000 years ago. Is there a contradiction? No. It is a spiritual truth that we accept by faith. I think that Paul is telling this crowd something similar. God has created a 'new self' for you, so acknowledge it, put it on, utilize it. Is this understanding really that far fetched, Joe? Bill Mc |
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7 | Joe, who is ya, man? | James 2:10 | Reformer Joe | 19367 | ||
Bill: The NT was written as instruction. The point I was making was that this whole idea of the old self being non-existant is so predominant in your view that the associates of Paul responsible for planting the church in Ephesus (most likely Priscilla and Aquilla -- Acts 18) would have been pretty bone-headed not to have even mentioned it to the converts there. What verse are you referring to when you say that Christ was slain before the foundation of the world? I agree that God has created a new self for us. I also agree that there are vestiges of our old nature present, which is what we have to "put off." There is nothing you wrote in that last paragraph that I have a problem with. What I just don't get is your refusal to acknowledge that part of us just simply isn't righteous in practice. It is more than the fact that we are walking around in a biological construct (our bodies) that is defective despite our spiritual renewal. Every time I commit a sin, it is not because despite my attempts to fight it that I can't help myself. At the point in time that I sin, I do indeed place serving myself above honoring God. My problem is that I don't hate sin as much as God does, despite my regeneration. --Joe! |
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