Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are Galatians seeking sanctification? | James 2:10 | Reformer Joe | 19342 | ||
Perhaps, which is also in error. We are not sanctified by the Law any more than we are justififed by it. Sanctification is a work of God's free grace. However, those being sanctified will exhibit the moral behavior prescribed in the Law in their conduct. The horse is sanctification by the Spirit. The cart is God-pleasing works. The Galatians were getting things backwards. One must also fully take into account what Paul was arguing against here. He was not challenging the idea that Christians should do SOME things which are found in the Law. What the Galatians were falling into was the complete external trappings of the Law and its regulations. Notice again that Paul does not tell the Galatians that the prohibition on murder, covetousness, lying, and adultery are invalid for believers. What he challenges is that the Law itself is a means to attaining a righteousness of our own either in addition to or apart from Christ's work of atonement. --Joe! |
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2 | Joe, I agree with you here. | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19347 | ||
Joe, I agree with what you say here. You have stated that the Law itself is not means to attaining a righteousness of our own in addition to or apart from Christ's work on the cross. I agree 100 percent. So why do you and I cross ways? Confused, Bill Mc |
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3 | Joe, I agree with you here. | James 2:10 | Reformer Joe | 19362 | ||
Bill: Perhaps we can get to the core of the disagreement by looking at the answer to these two questions: What is the ultimate reason for God saving us? In other words, was God's highest motive for saving us just to get us to heaven and bless us (which is certainly a part of it), or is there a "bigger picture"? Secondly, since we agree that works are not the ground of our salvation, but rather faith in Christ's completed work on the cross, what is the purpose and place of works in the Christian's life? Is discipleship a nice "extra" that makes us more fulfilled, or is it something that is an essential trait of all whom God saves? I hold that God's highest passion is to glorify Himself, since he is the epitome of all that is holy and just and morally upright. Simply put, you can't get better than God, and He knows it. Therefore, if he honors what is most perfect, He must have the place of highest honor. Even our salvation, while it is a blessing to us, has the ultimate purpose of manifesting God's mercy and love, just as the damnation of the unregenerate demonstrates God's justice. The atonement of Christ demonstrates both. Therefore, I am not the center of God's creation; He is. As far as works go, I hold that good works ALWAYS accompany the transforming presence of Christ in those who have true faith. The Bible makes clear that there are those who claim to be Christian, but really aren't of us at all. God-honoring traits and actions are the work of God in the lives of every believer to demonstrate that we truly are his. In my view, that is the only way we can reconcile Ephesians 2 and James 2. Works are important, and God will require them and motivate and enable believers to accomplish them, not to GAIN nor to MAINTAIN salvation, but to make evident to men our salvation and again, to be an instrument for the glorification of Himself. That is why, as a believer, I delight in the moral commandments of God found in the Law. I know that these commands are what God wants His children to do, and law still serves the purpose of showing how we fall short in our daily lives and reminds us of how glorious the gospel truly is. It is not a means to salvation, but it isn't to be tossed out the window in its entirety as completely irrelevant in the life of the believer. This is the division between law and gospel we find in the entire Bible. Law (in the general sense) is the righteous requirements of a holy God upon his creation. Of course, we have and always will fall short of those requirements. Gospel is the proclamation of God's grace and mercy extended to us who fall short of fulfilling God's demand of absolute holy conduct, through the work of Christ Jesus, who did indeed fulfill the Law in his sinless life on earth. --Joe! |
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4 | Joe, I agree with you here. | James 2:10 | Bill Mc | 19369 | ||
Joe, Here's my understanding: "What is the ultimate reason for God saving us?...is there " a "bigger picture"?" -- Joe, there is indeed a bigger picture and you have stated it better than I could right here: "I hold that God's highest passion is to glorify Himself, since he is the epitome of all that is holy and just and morally upright...Therefore, I am not the center of God's creation; He is." -- Joe, I agree 120 percent. Especially with the fact that I am not the center of God's creation, He is (although we both know that Christ was not 'created' like man was). "As far as works go, I hold that good works ALWAYS accompany the transforming presence of Christ in those who have true faith." --Joe, some people do not live long enough after conversion to manifest any good works. Granted, this is rare, but it is none the less true. So to say that "good works ALWAYS accompany the transforming presence of Christ" is probably a little stricter than what I would say. I would phrase it this way: Given time, the transforming presence of Christ will manifest itself through good works. We are created for good works and I agree with that whole-heartedly. But, in my opinion, to say that good works ACCOMPANY the presence of Christ implies that the presence of Christ and good works are separate. I.e. good works and Christ presence are distinct from each other. I believe that Christ's presence is the SOURCE of the good works. As you know from my other posts, I think that any good works that we do apart from Him being our source are works of the flesh and will be burnt up. I believe that God will only bless what He initiates and performs through us. Christ did many good works but He did them through the power of the Spirit and because the Father told Him to. So, technically, good works did not ACCOMPANY Christ. He performed them as He abided in His Father. I hope you don't think that I'm nit-picking. But I do feel the distinction is important. As Christ abided in the Father, we are called to abide in Christ. "God-honoring traits and actions are the work of God..." --Notice what you say here, Joe, they are the WORK OF GOD manifested "... in the lives of every believer to demonstrate that we truly are his." --Agreed. "Works are important, and God will require them" --Once again, Joe, I have a problem with the words 'God will require them.' Every good and righteous trait and deed that we as Christians manifest is merely a reflection of what God has given and done in us. God requires holiness. Thru Christ He makes us holy. God requires perfection. Thru Christ, He makes us perfect. God requires 100 percent obedience. Thru Christ, God makes us obedient, etc. This is the nature of grace. What God required, fulfillment of the Law, He Himself fulfilled in Jesus Christ. What God requires of us, He Himself supplies. He says, "Love Me above all else." Then John says, "We love Him because He first loved us." God says, "Forgive men." Paul writes, "Forgive others as Christ has forgiven you." He is the source. We respond to Him, not He to us. "That is why, as a believer, I delight in the moral commandments of God found in the Law." --Joe, this is not one-upmanship, but I delight in Christ. I will boast in what He has done not the Law. Christ alone is my glory. Christ's 'morality' transcends even the Law. He demonstrated this with the Sermon on the Mount. How righteous do we have to be? As righteous as the Law? No. As righteous as the Father in heaven. And that kind of righteousness only comes as a gift. "Of course, we have and always will fall short of those requirements." --In our actions while on earth, yes. That is why God gave us His righteousness. We could never accomplish His righteousness on our own. "Gospel is the proclamation of God's grace and mercy extended to us who fall short of fulfilling God's demand of absolute holy conduct, through the work of Christ Jesus, who did indeed fulfill the Law in his sinless life on earth." --Agreed. And the mystery of this wonderful Gospel, Joe, is that through the Holy Spirit, this Jesus Christ who is the epidomy of God's glory is united with God's creation, man. Man now 'measures up' because of the union we have with Christ. We died to the Law so that we could be married to Christ. The marriage supper hasn't happened yet but we are already in union with Him, are we not? We are baptized by the Holy Spirit into Christ and He is in us. No longer is God separate from His creation. We can manifest God to others around us through good works because this God that they long to see actually dwells within. What a wonderful salvation! In Christ, Bill Mc |
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5 | Joe, I agree with you here. | James 2:10 | Reformer Joe | 19394 | ||
You wrote: "Joe, some people do not live long enough after conversion to manifest any good works. Granted, this is rare, but it is none the less true." Acknowledged. But as you said, the "thief on the cross" type of situation is rare. God knows what He has or has not accomplished in the heart; but for those of us who are not converted on our deathbeds, over time God will bring about God-honoring works as evidence to ourselves and men that we are truly saved. I can tell you precisely when I was saved, not simply because I prayed some prayer, but because that was the moment that God changed my disposition toward Him completely. I was only 11 or so, but despite my sinning, since that point my life generally has been characterized by a propensity to desire to do the things of God. You wrote: "What God requires of us, He Himself supplies." What a very Reformed thing to say! Augustine said very much the same thing regarding our works: "Father, require what You will, but grant what You require." This statement you made not only applies to our justification, but also to our Christian walk. You wrote: "I delight in Christ. I will boast in what He has done not the Law." Boasting in our compliance with what God wants from us is different from delighting in God's moral will as good. David was indwelt with the Holy Spirit, and he knew of the coming Christ. Yet we still have Psalm 119. Therefore, I too boast in my Savior's accomplishments and at the same time delight in God's good and perfect moral law. --Joe! |
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