Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | Morant61 | 24759 | ||
Greetings Sir Pent! Concerning the question of the critria, I wrote the following in a previous post: ******************************************* However, I would like to address the question of whether or not the description in Heb. 6 can apply to a believer. Consider the following: 1) The first term in Heb. 6:4 desribes the person as being enlightened. The word is 'photizo'. This word is used again in Heb. 10:32 where it says, " Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering." These people are also described in Heb. 10:39 as, " But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved." So, I think this could definitely be a term describing true salvation and not just intellectual assent to the Gospel. 2) The person described in 6:4 is also said to have tasted of the Heavenly Gift. It can be debated what the Heavenly Gift is, but the word tasted means to participate in fully. For instance, this word is used in Heb. 2:9, "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone." Whatever the Heavenly Gift is, the person described took part fully. 3) The person in Heb. 6:4 is described as one who as "shared in the Holy Spirit." Can an unbeliever be described as someone who has shared in the Holy Spirit, especially in light of 2 Cor. 6:14, where 'metochos' (the same word translated as shared in Heb. 6:4) is used to describe the lack of a relationship between righteousness and unrighteousness? Futher, this word is used several other times in Hebrews. Heb. 3:1 talks about "sharing in the Heavenly calling." Heb. 3:14 talks about "sharing in Christ." I really don't see how these terms could describe a non-Christian! You some questions at the end of your post about the consequences of "a falling away theology." As an Arminian, my response would be that Heb. 6:4-6 doesn't describe someone who has simply slipped up. It describes a person (in my opinion) who has willingly rejected Christ in light of their full participation. Someone who slips should be restored, as you pointed out. But, the person in Heb. 6:6 has completly turned his back upon Christ. ******************************************* My view is that this doesn't describe backslidding or occasional failure, but an absolute rejection of the Cross as the only means of salvation. The point (I believe) is that any one who rejects the cross cannot be saved because that is the only source of salvation. So, I wouldn't say that this applies to you as your current situation demonstrates that you haven't rejected Christ! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | Sir Pent | 25272 | ||
Further Concerns ................................ Dear Tim, Thanks for your in depth analysis of "being enlightened", "tasting the heavenly gift", and "sharing in the Holy Spirit". I think that I agree with your perspective on those ideas. The bad news is that I know that they applied to me prior to my "falling away". I also agree that "falling away" or "apostasy" is much more than an occasional sin or backsliding. I too, believe that it is a total rejection of God and His salvation. The bad news is that many years ago, I did just that. This would seem to be very bad for me. One thing that I would appreciate more input on would be the type of verb used for the "falling away". Is it a present progressive type, meaning that as long as you reject God, He won't save you? Or is it a past tense type, meaning that if you ever rejected God (after being a Christian), He won't save you? |
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3 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | Morant61 | 25332 | ||
Greetings Sir Pent! Thanks for your patience! I was hesitant to go beyond what I wrote because of the difficulty of the verse. So, I have been doing some more research. Here is what I have concluded! The problem with Heb. 6:6 is that all of the verbs in this verse occur only one time in the New Testament. This makes it very difficult to be dogmatic about what they mean, since we have no context to compare them with. With that in mind, I believe the following: 1) That the author is writting to Christians, not pagans or hearers only! 2) That this passage is describing a continuing attitude or action! 3) That the person who persists in this attitude is lost! 4) That any sin or attitude can be repented of! Let's look at the progress of the passage. Beginning in verse 4, the passage says that it is impossible to renew to repentance those who: * have been enlighted (aorist participle). * have partaken of the heavenly gift (aorist participle). * have shared in the Holy Spirit (aorist participle). * have tasted the word of God (aorist participle). * have fallen away (aorist participle). The key, I think, is found in the last two verbs. I believe that they give the reason why these people cannot be brought to repentance again. These two verbs say that: * they are cruciying afresh (present participle). * they are exposing Him to public disgrace (present participle). All of the other verbs are aorist participles. They describe past actions. These last two are present participles describing present actions and attitudes. I think that the people described here are similar to those in Heb. 10:26 and 10:29. They are believers who despise the blood of Christ and wilfully sin against Him. The context of Heb. 6:7-8 would seem to support this. But, here is the key point. The impossiblity of renewing them to repentance seems to be tied to their current and ongoing attitude. I don't see anything is the passage that indicates that such a person can never be saved again or can never repent. It is impossible now, because they are crucifying, they are publicly shaming Christ, and they are sinning wilfully. If that attitude changes, I don't see any grammatical reason why they could not repent. One of the basic rules of interpretation is to let clear Scripture interpret less clear Scripture. Heb. 6:6 is not real clear. But, 1 John 1:9 is clear. No where else in Scripture are we told that it is impossible for someone to repent. Therefore, I would say that Heb. 6:6 desribes the lost condition of those who are actively and currently rejecting Christ wilfully. As long as they remain in this state of rejection, it is impossible for the to repent, since salvation is found only in the Christ they are rejecting. If they have a change of attitude toward Christ, I believe that this passage would no longer apply to them. I hope this helps! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | zach† | 34289 | ||
Brother Tim; How do you think the following scripture might be applied to the repentance issue you addressed? Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he (Esau) would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears. In Christ zach† |
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5 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | Morant61 | 34293 | ||
Greetings Zach! I've just got to know! How do you get the cross symbol in your name? Concerning Heb. 12:17, the context seems to be one of making careful decisions. The blessing which Esau could not regain was his birthright, which he had traded for a bowl of soup. There was no way to undo the consequences of his foolish dececision. So, I don't believe that this verse is saying that Esau was lost, simply that he couldn't undo his choice - and as a result, he lost his birthright. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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6 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | zach† | 34312 | ||
Tim; to insert the cross after your name do the following 1) Engage Num Lock key 2) While holding down the ALT key on your keyboard, type 0134 from your Number pad and let off your alt key, and † you have a cross. Thank you for your quick response concerning Heb. 12:17, I was wondering whether the birthright in that text could be carried over in the New Testament to a Christian's birthright? I haven't went into a detailed study of that text yet, but will in the future, once I can find the time In Christ zach_† |
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