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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | Morant61 | 14751 | ||
Greetings Radioman! You said in your posts: "Those who want to make this verse mean that believers can lose salvation will have to admit that it would then also say that one could never get it back again." As an Arminian, I have no problem with that. But, I would add a clarification. It is impossible to "lose" one's salvation. To me, "losing" something implies an accident. I'm walking down the road and lose my wallet. I am walking along in my Christian life and suddenly realize that I have lost my salvation. The action described in Heb. 6:4-6 is not an accident. It is an intentional act of will. Neither is it a description of a Christian who simply isn't living up to the full level of maturity which is possible in Christ. Heb. 6:4-6 describes someone who knowingly rejects Christ. He has experienced salvation. He has been filled with the Spirit. He has known the Word. Yet, he has utterly turned away from Christ. Such a person cannot be saved, simply because salvation is found only in Christ. A person this far gone has no hope. He is the person described in Heb. 10:29 - "How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?" Fortunately, I believe this kind of person to be exceedingly rare. It is difficult to imagine many who have known the love of the Lord, totally rejecting Him. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | Sir Pent | 24708 | ||
A concern for salvation .......................... Dear Tim, I know that you wrote this 3 months ago, but I would like to revisit it. Nolan recently brought up this passage in another post, and I went back and reread it. I know that you said that you find it hard to imagine a person who would do such a thing, but I believe that I may be one. You can read my experience by doing a quick search for "lost found testimony". The question I have is "Do I fit the criteria?" To know that, I need to know what the criteria are. Therefore, I would appreciate your input. In Hebrews 6:4-6: What does it mean to be "enlightened"? What does it mean to "taste the heavenly gift"? What does it mean to "share in the Holy Spirit"? What does it mean to "taste the goodness of God's Word?" What does it mean to "taste the powers of the coming age?" What does it mean to "fall away"? |
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3 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | Morant61 | 24759 | ||
Greetings Sir Pent! Concerning the question of the critria, I wrote the following in a previous post: ******************************************* However, I would like to address the question of whether or not the description in Heb. 6 can apply to a believer. Consider the following: 1) The first term in Heb. 6:4 desribes the person as being enlightened. The word is 'photizo'. This word is used again in Heb. 10:32 where it says, " Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering." These people are also described in Heb. 10:39 as, " But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved." So, I think this could definitely be a term describing true salvation and not just intellectual assent to the Gospel. 2) The person described in 6:4 is also said to have tasted of the Heavenly Gift. It can be debated what the Heavenly Gift is, but the word tasted means to participate in fully. For instance, this word is used in Heb. 2:9, "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone." Whatever the Heavenly Gift is, the person described took part fully. 3) The person in Heb. 6:4 is described as one who as "shared in the Holy Spirit." Can an unbeliever be described as someone who has shared in the Holy Spirit, especially in light of 2 Cor. 6:14, where 'metochos' (the same word translated as shared in Heb. 6:4) is used to describe the lack of a relationship between righteousness and unrighteousness? Futher, this word is used several other times in Hebrews. Heb. 3:1 talks about "sharing in the Heavenly calling." Heb. 3:14 talks about "sharing in Christ." I really don't see how these terms could describe a non-Christian! You some questions at the end of your post about the consequences of "a falling away theology." As an Arminian, my response would be that Heb. 6:4-6 doesn't describe someone who has simply slipped up. It describes a person (in my opinion) who has willingly rejected Christ in light of their full participation. Someone who slips should be restored, as you pointed out. But, the person in Heb. 6:6 has completly turned his back upon Christ. ******************************************* My view is that this doesn't describe backslidding or occasional failure, but an absolute rejection of the Cross as the only means of salvation. The point (I believe) is that any one who rejects the cross cannot be saved because that is the only source of salvation. So, I wouldn't say that this applies to you as your current situation demonstrates that you haven't rejected Christ! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | kalos | 24785 | ||
Tim: I am so impressed with you that I just had to write and say so. I sincerely thank you for your Note re Hebrews 6:4, addressed to Sir Pent, the one that begins "Concerning the question of the criteria..." Your note presents an opposing viewpoint to my Notes, Subject: Heb 6:4-6 What does it mean...?, posted at 7:57 p.m., 8:25 p.m., and 9:05 p.m. I having nothing but appreciation and admiration for your Note. It is so well written and well thought out. To see a defense of an opposing viewpoint based on reason and Scripture is such a rare experience here on the Forum. You've made my day. You have perfectly illustrated the point that I have made repeatedly -- that it's not being disagreed with that I object to. What irritates me is when someone else disagrees with me without scriptural support or sound reasoning. Or when they reject an interpretation that I hold to, yet they themselves have no alternate interpretation to offer. This is never the case with you, for you do a consistently excellent job of presenting your understanding of various Scriptures and doctrines. God bless you. kalos |
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5 | Hebrews 6:4 | Heb 6:4 | Morant61 | 24820 | ||
Greetings Kalos! Hi! Wow! After a long night at work (I have been sick), it was nice to read such an affirming note! :-) I do agree with your points as well! I never mind reading an opposing view that is well thought out and Scriptural. Well, I'm going to bed and try to get over my cold! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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