Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Titus 3:5 and washing of regeneration | Titus 3:5 | Dalcent | 132450 | ||
BROTHERS, 2 Peter 1:20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, My answer is that as a bible-college trained evangelical the deeper I got into the Bible the more problems I had in holding evangelicalism's system of bible interpretation. I used to make jokes about 'these are the verses in pale grey.' (say 2 Thess 2:15). I got fairly cheesed off with arguments that said, if you go to the 'original greek' this really says the opposite: black is white. The 'can you, can't you lose your salvation' issue subsumed by the sola fide position drove me mad. I hated the strained 'explanations' of difficult verses offered by my colleagues. I might be accused of many things but naivity isn't one of them. To be honest I lost faith that the Bible was coherent and threw it all in! All I can testify is that as a Catholic I now read the Bible with great peace and and found that read properly it is entirely coherent read in its plain sense. I find the interpretation of the early Church Fathers fits Scripture like a glove, viz. something that never happened for me with evangelical theology. I've come to a place where I'm satisfied with my study of the Bible rather than falling to bits. This is just a testimony and I don't mean to insult anyone but it is a truthful testimony. I can go through a hundred verses with an evangelical which I used to find untenable and they will deny the obvious meaning of the text in every case, like I cite 'the church of the living God, is 'the pillar and support of the truth' I'm wrong. If I cite the plain words of James 2:24 'not by faith alone' I'm told of course faith alone is taught here. If I say 'believe and be baptised and you will be saved' I told the be be baptised bit is superfluous. If I cite 2 Thess 2:15 'So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us' I'm told I'm mistaken and the verse is clearly validating Sola scriptura. If I cite that Paul (1 Cor 9:8) said that he must discipline his body lest 'after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified' the reply is Paul confirming that you can't lose your salvation. In my Christian walk I've wrestled with many issues and changed sides and back but here everyone just seems utterly certain their view is correct Ultimately I just can't accept that the conservative evangelical wing of Protestantism is handling scripture properly at all. None of this is meant to sound rude but while evangelical beliefs are meant to be extracted from the Bible yet I find often they have been imposed on the Bible. Is this not even a possibility, a typical human weakness? Your comment 'If a Church father is in agreement with Scripture, then I can agree with him. Otherwise, I'll go with Scripture' in practice doesn't allow for a radical ideology critique. If you think 'your pre-existing interpretation of Scripture' and 'Scripture' and one and the same thing then Church Father's won't get a look-in if your pastor, denomination, tradition, etc. has pontificated of the true meaning of Scripture. Thus, it is common to see critiques of Catholicism such as: Catholic doctrine vs the Bible (like the Bible is more than words on a page until its read by a living man). Why is the booklet never called 'Catholic interpretation versus Evangelical interpretation in the light of Scripture? It's always assumed how you interpret is 'Scripture' though many Catholic doctries are far more literal. To Him be the Glory Dalcent |
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2 | Titus 3:5 and washing of regeneration | Titus 3:5 | BradK | 132458 | ||
Dalcent, I thank you for your honesty and thoughts on this matter of your testimony. My main question is: Are you then intimating that "Catholic" Theology is right and everyone else is wrong? That's how I read what you're saying. If not please correct me:-) This seems to be your thrust based on the posts I've read. You say "Ultimately I just can't accept that the conservative evangelical wing of Protestantism is handling scripture properly at all." Though I can't argue with your right to object, you certainly can't be advocating that Protestantism is all wrong in it's interpretation of scripture?! That's a very broad brush by which to paint! I would ask, "why"? By your own logic, the very same argument could be used against Catholicism that you levy at Protestants. However, that would be extremely unfair because it is an over-generalization at best. Again, I respect your right to disagree, but it does appear that you have a MAJOR chip on your shoulder with regards to Protestantism and I'm not exactly sure why. If we're being honest, none of us has a "corner on the truth" when it comes to interpretation- Catholicism included! To say that you've "come to a place where I'm satisfied with my study of the Bible rather than falling to bits" is fine - if that's where you're at with the Lord. Praise God. However what you seem to be suggesting reeks of superiority in my humble estimation. God resists the proud , but gives grace to the humble. Those are my thoughts, in the spirit of love. BradK |
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3 | Titus 3:5 and washing of regeneration | Titus 3:5 | Dalcent | 132461 | ||
Dear BradK, I suppose I do believe Catholic theology has more truth in it than other denominations. I certainly held the view, at the time, that when I was evangelical I had more of the truth. I believe most people think that their denomination has the best theology. I think this is normal. What has surprised me with these postings is I expected people would be challenged by the scriptures I presented, but everyone seems blind to any point I would make. I have seen and engaged in arguments in the past between evangelicals and JW's, evangelicals and the Word-faith movement, Pentecostals and Baptists etc and no light is ever generated: only heat. I call it ping pong with bible verses. What we can conclude from this I don't know, but as a Catholic at least I have a Church to appeal to as arbitrar. Anyway, around the turn of the seventh century Pope Gregory sent Augustine of Cantebury with the gospel of Christ to England, to the Anglo-Saxon race (not Baptist missionaries or Pentecostal missionaries) and I hold to the faith once delivered 'at least to my forefathers.' I know it is a different story for you Americans. For the record I have far more in common with conservative Protestants (like George W.) than with progressive liberal Catholics (like Kerry) who might as well be aliens. I don't so much have a chip on my shoulder against Protestants (actually conservative evangelicals); rather I have a lot of common ground to dispute with them! Best Wishes Dalcent |
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4 | Titus 3:5 and washing of regeneration | Titus 3:5 | Morant61 | 132471 | ||
Greetings Dalcent! You wrote: "What has surprised me with these postings is I expected people would be challenged by the scriptures I presented, but everyone seems blind to any point I would make." I would suggest that we aren't blind to your points, we just don't always agree with them! :-) I haven't seen anything in your posts as of yet that I haven't heard many times before. This is not meant as an insult! :-) I'm just trying to say that I have been a Christian and a student of Scripture for a long time now (34 years). However, if Scriptural issues are to be discussed in a mutually beneficial manner, there must be a dialogue and interaction. I don't have to agree with you, but I need to present my reasoning to you as to why I don't agree. Conversely, the same is true of you. Thus far, when I have presented my reasoning, you have simply dismissed it out of hand without even presenting any evidence or reasoning. But, don't despair my friend, I am sure that there much where we will agree! ;-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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