Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | A divorced pastor in ministry? | 1 Tim 3:2 | EdB | 22993 | ||
Raul I think you knew what I meant when I said God does not make provision for sin in our lives but that He did send His son to Dead for our sin. I think you know what I meant when I said God provided to remove sin from our lives. It is by His blood that sin no longer reigns but we have salvation and freedom from it. I never denied the priesthood of the believers and in fact I stand firm in my belief in it. However that does not change the fact that God did call some to be pastors and from this list He seems to have excluded divorced or unmarried men. Quite frankly maybe I read more into your reply than you meant but I really don't like the tone of your reply. I never attacked you I merely stated what it is I see in this scripture. You on the other hand seemed to want to question my basic doctrine, possibly my salvation and implied I needed to explain myself. EdB |
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2 | A divorced pastor in ministry? | 1 Tim 3:2 | Raul Goulden | 22995 | ||
You said- However that does not change the fact that God did call some to be pastors and from this list He seems to have excluded divorced or unmarried men. I reply- Bare assertion again, the text doesn't support your private interpretation. You said- Quite frankly maybe I read more into your reply than you meant but I really don't like the tone of your reply. I never attacked you I merely stated what it is I see in this scripture. You on the other hand seemed to want to question my basic doctrine, possibly my salvation and implied I needed to explain myself. -EdB I reply- Just trying to sniff out what you mean, I was starting to get some 'sinless perfection' vibes from you and just wanted ask questions before shooting... so to speak. RG |
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3 | A divorced pastor in ministry? | 1 Tim 3:2 | EdB | 22996 | ||
Raul I'm far from sinless perfection, I repent every day and it seems I have more to repent for today by questioning your intentions please accept my most humble apologizes. As for bare assertions please explain how these qualifications are met by divorced people. Let’s take facts. Above Reproach – until recently divorce has always been a disgrace. Husband of one wife – one women man Temperate – Again major reason for divorce uncontrolled tempers. Prudent – the most frequent single element missing in divorced relationships. Respectable – again at this time divorce was a disgrace. Hospitable – hard for unmarried son living at home. Able to teach – able teach compromise within marriage. Uncontentious – main reason for divorce contention. Head of household – married EdB |
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4 | A divorced pastor in ministry? | 1 Tim 3:2 | Raul Goulden | 23024 | ||
Ed, you are correct, you did back your assertion with this list. If the qualifications aren't met, they aren't eligible, period. There is nothing on the list that is an automatic disqualifier to someone who has been divorced. One of my best friends ( a Vietnam vet) was married a couple years when he was very young. He has since been married 20yrs plus to the same woman and their marriage is exemplary in every way, one people look to as a model, your list doesn't apply to him. As for divorce being a disgrace you might want to get a wider perspective. The church for much of its history considered it a disgrace to NOT get divorced from and unfaithful spouse. See below. RG "In fact, among the Jews of the time divorce on the grounds of adultery was not simply permitted- it was required." ( Leon Morris, PNTC The Gospel According to Matthew p. 484 ) 122. "The penalty for proven adultery, when the capital punishment was abolished, was mitigated into the divorce of the woman (the husband having no other option)" (Israel Abrahams, Studies in Pharisaism and the Gospels, 1st ser. [rpt. New York, 1967], p. 74) So also G. F. Moore, Judaism, II [Cambridge, 1958], p. 125). The Mishnah provides that if a woman was found "..unchaste... he may not continue [his union] with her" (ketub 3.5). Bockmuehl cites Qumran and other evidence that "adultery (and rape) requires divorce" (NTS, 35 [1989], p.295). See also Mishnah, Sota 5:1. Footnote from PNTC on Matthew by Morris p. 21 "to retain the adulterous Person is scandalous (as in the Primitive Church it was esteemed so in Clergymen)"- [ from The Worthy Communicant by Bishop Jeremy Taylor Chap. 4 ] |
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5 | A divorced pastor in ministry? | 1 Tim 3:2 | EdB | 23064 | ||
Raul Again you have focused on what I said this time instead of the entire conversation. I said the only viable condition for divorce was if a spouse had already broken the marriage covenant. Your right Jews did divorce and Jesus answered them didn't he? If you want to use the Jews as an example look at the qualifications of a priest. Between the age of 30 and 50 (age discrimination) Male (gender discrimination) Married (marital status discrimination) Levite (ethnicity discrimination). Divorce was an automatic disqualifier. Were these discriminations or did God have particular reasons for these. I believe God knew what he wanted in a priest and asked for it. I think that is what we see in the passage in 1 Tim 3. I said that if a person were divorced before salvation I think they could become a Pastor. The case of your friend if the divorce took place before his salvation then yes I agree he could be a pastor. I just don't believe a Christian man or a women can be divorced and remarry and stay in a Pastor or become one. As to the other qualifications I have clearly shown how they eliminate a divorced person in my earlier responses. I'm not sure what your after, first the word plainly declares God hates divorce. Do you want to change that? To me God declares divorce causes exemption from being a Pastor only, why is that so hard to see a different standard there? Notice God did not set a particular standard for Apostles, Prophets, Evangelist, Teachers only Pastors, and Deacons why? Because they were going to have day to day contact with the people that other positions didn’t necessarily have. I believe this is why God required the man to understand by overcoming all the challenges that would effect a family. If you want to attend a church with a divorced pastor fine, but if your trying to convince me it is right, it ain’t gonna happen! A servant of the Most High EdB |
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6 | A divorced pastor in ministry? | 1 Tim 3:2 | magellan2019 | 174542 | ||
Hi everyone. I'm new here, but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents, as this particular subject is especially near and dear to my heart and is currently very relevant in my life. God called me into his service many years ago, though I have only recently answered that call. I have been married for 15 years, and am now in the process of getting divorced. Prior to initiating this, I prayed, studied the Word, sought counsel from reliable Christian friends and family, and finally decided that it was the right and Biblical course of action to take (marital infidelity was involved). Now, with that being said, my first assumption in answering God's call (shortly before divorce proceedings commenced) was that He wanted me to be a pastor. However, in my studies, I did happen upon this passage in question. It concerned me that I would not be allowed to fulfill my calling. I went through a period of extreme confusion and frustration. After much more study, prayer, and counsel, I came to realize that it was *me* who thought I was being called to the pulpit. God revealed to me that he was leading me into other ministries. The truth is that with being divorced, regardless of whether it can be Biblically supported, the effectiveness of a pulpit ministry would be greatly diminished. The effects of a perceived sin can be far more reaching than a technical non-sin. Many Christians with whom I have spoken believe that divorce is wrong, period, despite Christ's one allowance (Matt 19:8,9) that is additionally supported in Jeremiah 3:8. If I were to become a pastor now, what example does that set? Even though I can claim "I have the right to, because the Bible says divorce is allowable under my circumstances," what standard does that set for believers who are not as well versed in the Word? There is a reason why many quality seminaries will not accept students who have been divorced except in rare circumstances. As one other person suggested in this thread, rather than focusing on "what are my rights", the focus truly needs to be on "where is God calling me?" I always thought that I was going to become a pastor, but I know now that I am not. Rather, I am being called into other areas, which include teaching, and perhaps overseas missionary work. I'm good with that, because I know that God will lead me and use me where I can be most effective for Him. Bottom line, if someone has been divorced, they will be less effective as a pastor. It's unfortunate that the limiting factor has nothing to do with the individual, but rather perception of the congregation. It is my belief that this is why this stipulation was placed here. Anything that can be perceived as sin can be a stumbling block for other believers. Pastors must be above reproach, or even the perception of sin. |
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7 | A divorced pastor in ministry? | 1 Tim 3:2 | justme | 174543 | ||
Magellan2019: Welcome to the forum. I regret to inform you that you responded to a thread from November of 2001. Likely no one there at that will respond as if it were an recent thread. However someone else might respond as well as me. Having been a pastor, and now retired, I have seen the real life hard effects of divorce on people from all walks of life, Christians and non-Christians as well. First let me say I can hear you have a desire to be in ministry, and you say you have the "call". Scripture says many are called, but few are choosen. And the choosing is the difficult part. Part of the "call" is being acceptable and prepared. No matter how prepared we are if we are not acceptable to those who are searching for a "called" person to fill a ministry need, all the preperation in the world won't help. Most certianly there are people in ministry that make us wonder how or why any ministry could have called such a person. Personally wonder how the Word of Faith "tearchers" and so called "Prophets", and "Preachers" have managed to dupe their followers into believing they are "called" by God. Please consider that many places of Mission ministries do not consider divorced persons for being Missionaries. The Souther Baptist are just one such group that have this policy, regardless of the circumsatnces. There are some ministries who will call a divorced person if the divorced person was not aChristian at the time of the divorce. The fact that even if it is the wife who was divorced, and the husband it is his first marriage will not be acceptable to many. However, the more liberal denominations who tend to have a low view of Scripture, are mostly not concerned with divorced persons in ministry. These liberal denomiinations gererally accept homosexuality, and are more leaning to universalism. The exception of course would be the Roman Catholic Church. There are para church ministries that are solid and Scriptual who do call divorced people, if the person has a history from the inital divorce, of having dealt with the spiritual and psychological issues connected with divorce. Certianly enough time would have passed to established one as fit for serving others in Christ. I am not judging you, but in a wider opinion of Christians who are being divorced or have been divorced, no matter who filed first. As a pastor and even after being retired, I have come to the conclusion we who marry those who come to us seeking marriage need to be much more active in dealing with those who come to us after a divorce. For insatnce; if the divorced person and their former spouse is not remarried, I would insist on talking to the both of them from the former marriage. If ther is ANY hope of reconcillation, then this is what MUST be given every chance possible. When this is not what happens, we have divorce and remarriage, and the rate for a second divorce is very great. The third marriage has almost impossible odds against it, even when both are Christians. Christians divorce just about the same as non Christians, which just ought never to be. If pastors would spend the time to attempt to assure there is no hope whatsoever of reuniting divorced husbands and wives, I am sure this would make a huge impact on the Church. Is this not what Jesus expected us to do? We do not because of "hardness of heart" on someones part. There are times that nothing can be done because the divorce was the choice of either killing the marriage or the couple killing each other. The book of Hosea is an example of a marriage most would have said there is no chance to save this marriage! But, God did. The same God of Hosea is the same God of today. You did not say if there are children envolved, Hosea had children that were not his, God can heal anyones marriage if we will let Him. What hurts me deeply, is that many of the couples I married, are divorced today. I wonder what I could have done that might have help prevent these divorces. I believe if I had adopted a more in depth counseling with the couples and parents, with more emphasis on marriage on marriage being a Covenant with the couple and God, I would have been a better pastor. My bottom line if there is ANY hope of even the very slightest, I would encourage you to do all you can under Gods help to reunite yourself to your wife. Adultery is able to be forgiven. Ther is no divorce that each person does not have some responsibility. May God lead you so you can answer the "call" you believe you have been given. Peace and Grace be with you. Justme |
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8 | A divorced pastor in ministry? | 1 Tim 3:2 | magellan2019 | 174547 | ||
Thank you for responding, Justme. I honestly hadn't even looked at the date, just saw the subject. I appreciate your words, and your willingness to share your insights and experiences. As a pastor, I can imagine the blow it must be to have couples you marry end up divorced. In reading through this thread, regardless of its age, several notes and comments have helped to clear up several concerns I had about my interpretation of these verses. Thank you again. |
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9 | A divorced pastor in ministry? | 1 Tim 3:2 | justme | 174567 | ||
Magellan: You are more than welcome, I sincerely pray you find where you can best serve the Lord. Blessings. Justme |
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