Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The church as the pillar of Truth? | 1 Tim 3:15 | srbaegon | 137096 | ||
Hello Al, It's plain, from Paul's teaching anyway, that what was said to the churches was later written down in the Scriptures. The only difference between written and oral teaching would not be authoritative because it's not God's word. 1 Tim 3:15 is a metaphor. 1 Cor 12 calls the church a body. Same thing--different picture. Steve |
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2 | The church as the pillar of Truth? | 1 Tim 3:15 | junmeskie | 137132 | ||
Steve wrote: "The only difference between written and oral teaching would not be authoritative because it's not God's word." ---------------- Al's Answer ------------------ I see but tell me if these verses below is not authoritative? and if it is not says who? Paul speaks of oral tradition as authoritative - 2 Thess. 2:15, 2 Tim. 2:2, 1 Cor. 11:2, 1 Thess. 2:13 Paul speaks of oral tradition as authoritative. 2Thessalonians 2:15 "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." Early Christians followed apostolic tradition - Acts 2:42, 2 Timothy 2:2 "And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit Thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also" Steve wrote: 1 Tim 3:15 is a metaphor. 1 Cor 12 calls the church a body. Same thing--different picture. ------------------- Al Answer ---------------- is this your personal interpretation? or Gods word? I pray and hope that I don't have to keep reposting these same verses because it does not suit your Theology. God Bless Al |
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3 | The church as the pillar of Truth? | 1 Tim 3:15 | mark d seyler | 137135 | ||
Can you show what those traditions that Paul is referring to are? You can say that you have oral traditions that add to the Bible, and that you have every right to do this because Paul did it, but unless I know that your traditions are exactly the same as Paul's, then the fact that Paul stated these things has absolutely no bearing or relevance to those traditions being taught now. Your claim as I understand it is that those teaching the oral traditions have the same authority as the early church apostles. I can only judge that by their agreement to the scriptures. Love in Christ, Mark |
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4 | The church as the pillar of Truth? | 1 Tim 3:15 | junmeskie | 137146 | ||
Jesus promised Peter our First Pope in Matthew 16:19 : I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Jesus is referring to Isaiah 22:22 I will place the key of the House of David on his shoulder; when he opens, no one shall shut, when he shuts, no one shall open. This is the reason the Pope has the authority to bind and lose when it comes to 1) Doctrine and 2) Moral only. If you uphold the bible please understand these verses too. God Bless Al |
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5 | The church as the pillar of Truth? | 1 Tim 3:15 | Praise Be To God | 137147 | ||
My understanding of these verses is as follows: Matthew 16:18. In these words, Christ promises to build His church on the truth of Peter's and the other disciples' confession that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. Jesus uses a play on words here. He calls His disciple "Peter", meaning a small stone, but goes on to say "upon this rock I will build my church," i.e. He will build His church on Peter's solid confession. It is Jesus Christ who is the Rock, the first and great foundation of the church. Peter states in his first letter that Jesus is the living stone . . . a chief corner stone . . . the stone which the builders disallowed. At the same time, Peter and all other Christians are living stones who become part of the structure of the spiritual house which God is building. Nowhere in Scripture is it stated that Peter would be the supreme and infallible authority above all other disciples. Nor is it stated that Peter should have infallible successors who would represent Christ and function as the official head of the church. Respectfully, Janae Whitlock |
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6 | The church as the pillar of Truth? | 1 Tim 3:15 | junmeskie | 137232 | ||
and that is your understanding? not the church. Janae wrote: "...Peter's and the other disciples' confession that Jesus is the Christ" ---------------------Al answer-------------- please show me the word confesion in this verse? Matt.16:18 "..That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "..upon this rock" - something like a rock (solid) in firmness Foundation or Support "I will build my church" - to develop according to a systematic plan, by a definite process Jesus the son of a carpenter will not build (structure of a the church) a weak foundation, a son of God perfect indeed. "gates of hell"- devils or heresies "shall not prevail against it"- cannot and never be destroyed Exod.13:21 Janae wrote: "...meaning a small stone," ------------ Al answer ------------------ Jesus spoke Aramaic to his apostles Kepha or Kephas in Aramaic has only one meaning "rock" when it was translated into Greek it became an specific word Petros (masculine) Petras (feminine). Jesus called Simon (a man) Peter (Petros) not Simeona (Petras) unless he is transexual...lol Think about it? Example: Spanish Roberto - is a masculine name Roberta - is a feminine name French Piere (Peter) - is a maculine specific name No feminine name. Jesus changed the name of Simon to Peter for a reason (his church foundation) like God changed the name of Abram to Abraham Father of Nations Matt.16:18 "..That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." "..upon this rock" - something like a rock (solid) in firmness Foundation or Support "I will build my church" - to develop according to a systematic plan, by a definite process Jesus the son of a carpenter will not build (structure of a the church) a weak foundation, a son of God perfect indeed. "gates of hell"- devils or heresies "shall not prevail against it"- cannot and never be destroyed Exod.13:21 Jesus is a builder and cannot be at the same time lay a foundation to himself. He called Simon the Rock (Masculine) since you cannot build on a very weak foundation. Remember the story of the 3 Little Pigs? It's funny when people add words to the Bible and don't see it. I must have read Matthew 16:18 a thousand times (at least over 5 bible versions) I still have to see the word "Confession" in this verse. the only I can say is this "Show me where it says in the Bible?" Please show me the word CONFESSION in Matthew 16:18? Thanks God Bless Al |
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7 | The church as the pillar of Truth? | 1 Tim 3:15 | srbaegon | 137237 | ||
Hello Al, The word "confession" does not have to be in the verse in order to make it one. You are playing games. :-) Steve |
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8 | The church as the pillar of Truth? | 1 Tim 3:15 | junmeskie | 137239 | ||
now it is me who is playing games? "What is Your Authority?" This is nothing fancy, just a little script you might learn from. In Catholic Answers seminars we try to emphasize the point that you should always demand that a missionary who comes to your door first establish his authority for what he is going to tell you, and only then proceed to discuss the particular issues he has in mind. By "authority," we do not mean his personal or academic credentials. We mean his authority to claim he can rightly interpret the Bible. The missionary (unless he is a Mormon, of course, in which case his authority is the Book of Mormon) will always claim to fall back on the authority of Scripture. "Scripture says this" or "Scripture proves that," he will tell you. So before you turn to the verses he brings up, and thus to the topic he brings up, demand that he demonstrate a few things. First, ask him to prove from the Bible that the Bible is the only rule of faith (if he is an Evangelical or Fundamentalist Protestant he holds to the Reformation theory of sola scriptura—the Bible alone). Second, have him tell you how he knows which books belong in the Bible in the first place. And third, require that he prove to you both that he has the authority to interpret the Bible for you (remember that his doctrines will almost always be drawn from interpretations of the sacred text rather than the words themselves) and that his interpretations will always be accurate. Imagine the conversation goes something like this: "Good afternoon, neighbor. May I share a few words of Christian truth with you?" "Sure," you say. "Where do you get this truth?" "From the Bible, of course." "That is your authority? The Bible?" "Yes, it is the only authority for Christians." "Can you prove that from the Bible?" "What do you mean?" "I mean I do not believe the Bible claims to be the sole rule of faith. I mean the doctrine of sola scriptura is itself unbiblical. Please show me where the Bible claims such a status for itself." A Sufficient Rule of Faith? At this point the missionary probably will bring up one of several verses. The passage most commonly brought up by Evangelicals and Fundamentalists is 2 Timothy 3:16–17. In the King James Version, the verse reads this way: "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteous- ness; That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." Many claim that 2 Timothy 3:16–17 claims Scripture is sufficient as a rule of faith. But an examination of the verse in context shows that it does not claim that at all; it only claims Scripture is "profitable" (Greek: ophelimos) that is, helpful. Many things can be profitable for moving one toward a goal, without being sufficient in getting one to the goal. Notice that the passage nowhere even hints that Scripture is "sufficient"—which is, of course, exactly what Protestants think the passage means. Point out that the context of 2 Timothy 3:16–17 is Paul laying down a guideline for Timothy to make use of Scripture and tradition in his ministry as a bishop. Paul says, "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God (Greek: theopneustos "God-breathed"), and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Tim. 3:14–17). In verse 14, Timothy is initially exhorted to hold to the oral teachings—the traditions—that he received from the apostle Paul. This echoes Paul reminder of the value of oral tradition in 1:13–14, "Follow the pattern of the sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus; guard the truth that has been entrusted to you by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us" (RSV), and ". . . what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2:2). Here Paul refers exclusively to oral teaching and reminds Timothy to follow that as the "pattern" for his own teaching (1:13). Only after this is Scripture mentioned as "profitable" for Timothy ministry. Continued http://www.catholic.com/library/What_Your_Authority.asp God Bless Al |
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9 | The church as the pillar of Truth? | 1 Tim 3:15 | srbaegon | 137453 | ||
Hello Al, I repeat: The word "confession" does not have to be in the verse in order to make it one. You are still playing games. :-) Steve |
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