Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Worthy of Honor but not of Respect | Eph 5:33 | Mommapbs | 21647 | ||
In other Scriptures,(I Tim. 3:11; Titus 2:2 et al) both men and woman are challenged to be worthy of respect. How does a woman repect her husband if he has not demonstrated a character that is worthy of that respect? This has been troubling me for a while. How can a woman respect a husband that abuses her or violates his vows? I feel that perhaps we are focusing on the wrong word here. In the Oxford version, repect is translated as reverence. Reverence is a much different word - it connotes honor. Everyone is worthy of honor because Jesus died for us all; He makes us worthy. In that, a woman can be obedient to God's Word as she honors her husband out of reverence for what Christ has done. Jesus tells us that we are to love one another - even those who presecute us! According to I Peter 2:17 showing love is what proper respect is."Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king." The wife "must see to it " that she chooses to love at all costs! Love covers a multitude of sins! We dare not respect the sin, but love the heart of the sinner out of reverence for the Lord. |
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2 | Worthy of Honor but not of Respect | Eph 5:33 | Rabbi Mark | 65448 | ||
We can't simply add or subtract words or change the meaning of the words in a text to suit or ideological views. God said what He meant and He meant what He said. There are reasons for it that are beyond the ideologies of our generation and they make perfect sense. Read Genesis 3:16, 1 Cor 14:35-36, and 1 Tim 2:12-14. It may not be palatable to the women or the men of our day. But it is the Word of God. We dare not alter it. And we best believe it. Yes a woman should fear her husband. He is physically, emotionally, and spiritually superior to her. Made that way of God. And her fear of her husband, if he be in God's will, keeps her from transgression. Not to say that the man does not owe the woman his love and vice a versa. This too is true. And it makes the whole exchange very fair. | ||||||
3 | Worthy of Honor but not of Respect | Eph 5:33 | Mommapbs | 65473 | ||
Greetings in Christ. You have identifed yourself as a "teacher." Please allow the student to respond. As I read your remarks to this post sent to Jules, it seems that you are accusing me of "doing what is right in my own eyes." This is a grievious statement, and according to God's Word, it should be expressed to the writer of the post(Please refer to Matthew 18:15). If you would dare to read a post from a woman with an open mind, perhaps you will be able to discern the desire to be submissive to the Lord in all my relationships. You wrote: God said what He meant and He meant what He said. There are reasons for it that are beyond the ideologies of our generation and they make perfect sense. The Scriptures you cited: Gen 3:16 - the man will rule over his wife. 1 Cor 14:35-36 - God's Word came to the man first 1 Tim 2:12-14 - a woman is not to teach or have authority over a man. How have I perverted God's Word to suit the "ideologies of this generation?" My position springs from the very common platfom of many Godly women: they are married to men who are not worthy of authority to "rule over their wives" because they are not submissive to the authority of the Lord. Yet as believers desiring to be obedient to God's Word, the shift of emphasis to the Lord Jesus Christ, is the ONLY WAY that we can really honor or respect anyone. Apart from Christ, is anyone worthy of RESPECT or HONOR? Apart from Christ, can we ever truly LOVE? (Please read John 15:5) In your post, you have QUALIFIED the command of God for a woman with these words, "if he be in God's will". Did God express His commands this way: obey Me if . . .? You wrote: Yes a woman should fear her husband. He is physically, emotionally, and spiritually superior to her. Made that way of God. And her fear of her husband, if he be in God's will, keeps her from transgression. Please read Gen 3:6. Exactly WHERE was Adam, who you claim was made to be "physically, emotionally and spiritually superior" to Eve? HE WAS RIGHT THERE WITH HER (!) and he did not (as you claim) "keep her from transgression." I thing both sexes got eactly what they deserved - some of us physically, emotionally and spiritually INFERIOR creations of God are difficult to love aren't we? In CHRIST'S LOVE, mommapbs PS: Since you have involved Jules in this dicussion, I have also sent him a copy of my positon in this posting. |
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4 | Worthy of Honor but not of Respect | Eph 5:33 | Rabbi Mark | 65640 | ||
My purpose for coming to the Forum is to offer the Word of God. Which is the final authority on all matters. "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12 Those who do not abide by the Word of God always find offense with it. They tend to take this offense out on the individulas who deliver the Word. Thus the death and tortures of the prophets and countless martyrs throughout the ages. Jesus Himself, crucified because the scribes and Pharisees took offense at the Word of God. If God tells the Woman to fear her husband; that is good enough for me. I believe Him. And I believe that His way is best. There is no scripture that gives the woman leeway to decide whether the man is worthy of her fear or obedience. Therefore, I find your position in saying that certain men can be judged by a woman unworthy of her respect and obedience an unreasonable assertion. It is actually putting a qualifier on God's Word. Thus changing it's meaning. Changing the Word of God to suit ones own opinion or thought is a perversion of God's Word. Now I don't think you have perverted God's Word by offering your opinion about what you think. We have all done that at one time or another. But I think a more careful and exhaustive study would be in order before anyone should take it upon themselves to instruct other young Christian's to follow a personal opinion as though it is a biblical doctrine. And I do think you have offered your opinion to others in this manner. There is nothing in the Bible that ever states that it is acceptable for a woman to qualify God's Word concerning God's instruction or that a future time will come in which God's instruction will be invalidated. Therefore, I find no biblical foundation for your argument. If you can prove your position with the Bible (rather than an opinion) please post it to my attention. Your very common platform of may "godly women" is not a biblically based precept that the man of God can go by. God's kingdom is not a democracy. But a theocracy. Nobody votes. Nobody has the right to a contradicting opinion that opposes God's Word in a theocratic kingdom. God has the final Word, always. As far as opinions go, we were warned, "There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." Proverbs 16:25 I also want to make the point that God does not promise us a happy marriage in the Bible. He gives us instructions, that if followed, will lead to a better marriage. That is why I qualified my assertion that "if the man be in gods will ...." Of course it is not always the case that the man be in God's will. So in that case we can expect more problems in a marriage. But God did not provide any instruction that would make obeying or fearing the man optional in the case that the man was not a godly man. After a comprehensive study on this matter, it is clear to me that God intends that no matter what the spiritual state of the man that the woman is to obey God's instruction. There is simply no other scripture that gives the woman this leeway. If the man does not obey God or treat the woman with love and honour the matter is between God and that man. God is able to deliver that woman if He so desire. But God may have that woman in that man's life for a purpose. That woman's example unto that man can be very significant if she be obedient even when the man is not. Life is not easy for the Christian. Isn't it Paul who wrote, "If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable." 1 Corinthinas 15 Certainly, in many marriages today, if in the husband only the wife had hope, she would be of all women most miserable. But the woman is not fearing and obeying the man for the man's sake alone. She is doing it for Christ sake, as a testimony, as an example -- and it is hard in most cases for the woman to do this. You also asked where was Adam in the garden while Eve was being tempted and exerted that he was right there beside her. No, the scripture clearly implies that Eve was alone at the time of her transgression. It equally implies that Adam knew nothing of it until Eve brought the fruit to Adam. Man is not omnipotent. Eve was in the transgression, because Paul said that she was, while he under the influence of the Holy Ghost as he wrote, "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression." 1 Tim 2:14. You can argue that if you like. But again, if you want to argue it with me, make your argument scriptural. Find something in scripture that reasonably refutes it. Your opinions are your opinions. And unlearned, undisiplined opinions at that. They mean absolutely nothing to me. But I do hope that scripture is important to you. |
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5 | Worthy of Honor but not of Respect | Eph 5:33 | Mommapbs | 65672 | ||
Greetings rabbi Mark, you have written: "My purpose for coming to the Forum is to offer the Word of God. Which is the final authority on all matters." I agree, the Word is the final authority, but the vessel that brings it is not. As iron sharpens iron, so does one man sharpen another.(Proverbs 27:17) I've had a real "honing" through our exchange. You have written: "Those who do not abide by the Word of God always find offense with it." Where have I done this? In all matters I endeavor to be obedient to the Spirit, I am NOT accountable to you. You are not my spiritual leader, nor are you my husband, and yes, he knows of this discussion! You claim to be "spiritually superior" (reference post 65448) to women. Should all women be excluded from participating on this Forum, or just ME? Yes, Eve was deceived, however, where was Adam while this took place? Wasn't he responsible for her? Did he intercede for her with the Lord God?Adam had a choice to make too, he ate the fruit. Sounds to me like they were BOTH responsible for the transgression - but yes, that is my opinion - we CAN differ can't we? I think we can agree that we are glad that God sent Jesus to be what God had intended for the first Adam, who loved His bride and gave Himself up for her! (Eph 5:25) Are you suggesting that a woman is to be obedient to a man, regardless of his relationship with the Lord? You have written: "After a comprehensive study on this matter, it is clear to me that God intends that no matter what the spiritual state of the man that the woman is to obey God's instruction.(to fear and obey her husband) There is simply no other scripture that gives the woman this leeway. If the man does not obey God or treat the woman with love and honour the matter is between God and that man." So, if my husband tells me to sign our income tax statement that I know is fraudlent, I should do this? Should I obey him if he asks me to do something that contradicts God's Word? What would you say to the woman who is abused physically, emotionally or spiritually? My endeavor was to show women (who are in situations of abuse)a way to be obedient to God's Word. The english language is far inferior. The word respect, for some, implies a form of admiration. Do you admire men who exercize their God-given authority by battering their wives? Is this how Christ loves the Church? The word honor, as opposed to the concept implied by the word respect, is appropriate when we see ALL as worthy by Christ's death. If I was married to a man who beat me, I could (and would) honor him in Christ. But I would not admire him. Sir, you have written, "Your opinions are your opinions. And unlearned, undisiplined opinions at that. They mean absolutely nothing to me." I suggest that you refrain from reading or responding to my posts. mommapbs |
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6 | Worthy of Honor but not of Respect | Eph 5:33 | Reformer Joe | 65755 | ||
One thing that I think is being missed here is the role of the church in dealing with abusive situations. If a Christian wife is being abused by a husband who is also a professing believer, where is the church discipline? There should be elders to whom the man is accountable, so that when unrepentant sin is made known (and in such situations it should be made known, for the husband's sake and for the sake of the name of Jesus Christ), the leadership God has established in the communion of saints can restore the family. And while the wife is to be submissive to her husband, the civil government is also God's tool to punish evildoers as well (Romans 13:1-3). Submission of authority is never license to rebel against the Supreme Authority. The apostles violated the commands of the civil authority when it conflicted with their mandate from Jesus Christ, but they made it clear why they were doing so. Church members are under an obligation to disobey commands from their elders to sin, and a wife is obligated to repectfully disobey her husband when he wants her to sin. --Joe! |
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7 | Worthy of Honor but not of Respect | Eph 5:33 | Mommapbs | 65790 | ||
Greetings Joe - great observation! I agree, church discipline is sorely lacking in many arenas. I believe that if we took this aspect of our relationship with others in the body seriously, we would have far less discord in our midst. Frankly, I am not aware of any woman that I know in this situation taking her issues to the elders. Good suggestion for me to pass along as necessary. (Now, I wonder how the elders will respond to this? Accountability works both ways.) Right now I thank God that he has given me a Godly husband who takes his role as spiritual leader in our family very seriously! Thanks again for your note! mommapbs |
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