Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | how can suicide be the same | Eph 5:29 | mark d seyler | 155841 | ||
Hi Jeff, You keep saying "an all or nothing kind of reasoning". I am reminded of those who ask, "Do you believe everything in the Bible literally?", and if the answer is yes, then they follow with, "So you think that God is a bird?" Psalm 63:7 "For You have been a help to me, and I will rejoice under the shadow of Your wings." No, God is not a bird. The word translated wings is the Hebrew word for corner, and can mean the wing of a bird, the corner of a building, or here, the corner of the robe. Picture kids hiding behind Daddy's robe. We know that God did not in fact kill everyone in the flood, because the Bible tells us so. Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die. Gen 6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee. "But with thee will I establish My covenant" God's full statement of intent included the salvation of Noah, his family, and certain animals. How do we know this? The text tells us. I will never knowingly or intentionally modify the meaning of any Biblical text without clear scriptural authority to do so. And frankly, in my understanding, regarding the verses we have been discussing, the statement by Job that he anticipates that given a certain situation, he would still "hate his own life" does not mean the same thing as "hating one's own body. I can hate my life while loving my body. Jesus even went further: Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple." Yet Paul still wrote "For no man ever yet hated his own flesh;" These must be two different things. And I just cannot accept the arguement that because your experiences with people have shown you something different than what the Bible says, we must now therefore understand what the Bible say differently then we would if we just sat down and read it. We have to also take into account your experiences. Do I misunderstand you? Is this not what you are saying? If not, please correct me, and we can continue more accurately. Love in Christ, Mark |
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2 | how can suicide be the same | Eph 5:29 | jlhetrick | 155843 | ||
Hi Mark, Yes, you misunderstand me. You also misquote and/or misrepresent what I have been saying. You are doing it with each post with subtle yet obvious statements like "I just cannot accept the arguement that because your experiences with people have shown you something different than what the Bible says, we must now therefore understand what the Bible say differently then we would if we just sat down and read it. We have to also take into account your experiences." I have never made such an argument! And for the sake of others that might read this post, let me say clearly that; no experience can show or teach you something different than what the bible says because, what the bible has to say is absolute truth and is not contradicted by man's words, thoughts, or experiences. I hope I make my position clear on this matter. Your comment is a gross misrepresentation of anything and everything that I have said throughout this dialogue. But you throw these things in between logical and friendly statements as if this some how excuses you for misrepresenting my comments. This is shameful behavior. This is also the basis for my commenting that you accuse me of blasphemy. Now, moving on. The first part of your most recent post very definately makes my point and, I think, clarifies to me that you got my point all along. You took the verse I presented (to Doc) and presented it in "context" of scripture to demonstrate that God's referring to "all" and "every thing" specifically meant, "all" and "every thing" EXCEPT Noah, his family, and the animals as He completed His thought and intent in the next verse. A perfect example of how "we" as God fearing christian men never, ever take a single verse, much less a single word and "assign" meaning to it without the context of the whole of scripture being in agreement. I believe and hope that all following this dialogue have benefitted from both of our presentations. Jeff |
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3 | how can suicide be the same | Eph 5:29 | mark d seyler | 155847 | ||
Hi Jeff, Perhaps I put greater meaning than you intended into your opening statement in your intitial post in this thread. You wrote: "My views are my "personal" understanding of this issue as both a christian and a liscensed professional practicing in the "realm" of mental health. Eph. 5:29 can not possibly be anything other than a generalization (foucsing on the norm) used to make the point of the passage which is that a man is called to love his wife in the way a "normal" or "typical" man would love himself in that he tends to all of his personal needs be they emotinal or physical." Did you not say that this verse could not be anything other than a generalization, and that you made this claim both as a christian, and as a mental health professional? Is this claim based entirely upon the Bible, or is it based on the Bible -and- your experience as a mental health professional? This is where I am getting the understanding that you are including your experiences in your interpretation of the Bible. If I an wrong to interpret your comments this way I apologize. Blasphemy is to vilify or to insult God, and I do not accuse you of blasphemy. I disagree with you regarding the interpretation of certain passages. To my understanding, clear and immediate context modifies what God said of destroying all life with the flood. But I don't see anything that allows us to modify Eph 5:29. This is where we disagree, but that is all. I disagree with you that the passage cited in Job represents "context" of Ephesians. The other passage you cite, while making statements which may be considered of a somewhat similar nature, do not refer to the same things. Job 9:21 says "Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life." Eph 5:29 "No man hates his own body" Job says life, Paul says body. These are funtionally and specifically different from each other. Jude 1:8 says "Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities." You can love your body while still defiling it. Be that as it may. I will accept your statement that "no experience can show or teach you something different than what the bible says because, what the bible has to say is absolute truth and is not contradicted by man's words, thoughts, or experiences." I agree with that completely, and I am happy to hear you say that. It is also my hope and pray that all reading this thread, and participating, will have reaped a benefit. Love in Christ, Mark |
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4 | how can suicide be the same | Eph 5:29 | jlhetrick | 155853 | ||
Hi Mark, I think we have exhausted the benefit of this thread as we are continuing to revisit the same arguments over and over. But, I will respond to this post. Where I referred to my personal views, opinions, I was specifically talking about this "issue" of suicide. I felt it necessary to refer to opinion because of what I do for a living. My line of work is not well received by a great many christians, as my spiritual beliefs and convictions are not by many a colleague. I always feel it challenging and important to explain to other christians that I do not take the liberal, scientific explanation for all truth which is without absolute, position that most in my field take. Interestingly, I never feel obligated to explain myself to my associates as the truth of God needs no validation from me. Perhapse one sticking point in our discussion, I see now, did have to do with the issue of "body" verses "life". And because suicide was the original topic of this thread, I may have mistakenly assumed that life was the issue at hand. I tried to explain this by asking the question something like this. If one loves his body does he hate his life and if he loves his life does he hate his body. Bows44 appeared to be making this observation in that he referred to Eph. 5:29 specifically to relate to the issue of suicide. From this point on perhapse more than one involved began a play on words, myself included. I can accept that this would have been done unintentionally while trying to make the various points clear. Finally, my references to blasphemy. Blasphemy certainly includes vilifying and insulting God, but it also includes an irreverence toward God and His word. Perhapse I was defensive, but, I felt like I was being accused of being just that. Thanks for the discussion. It is among those that I have had on the forum that gives me encouragement and growth. Jeff |
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5 | how can suicide be the same | Eph 5:29 | mark d seyler | 155856 | ||
Hi Jeff, I agree with you that we have reached a suitable end of this thread. I can appreciate your position in your professional field. The world hates Christ, and so it will hate you and I, and you are serving in a field that takes a special delight in casting aside the wisdom of God for the hubris of man. I can well imagine that your views are not well received by your collegues (sp?). I personally am glad you are in your profession, and I am certain that God uses you in a special way there, to accomplish work that can't be done other ways, and other places. My only issue was concerning the method of interpretation of scripture, and I feel that we have fully addressed this. Jeff, I appreciate your seeing this through with me. I truly dislike anything that seems adversarial, or that divides the brethren, and I pray that we not be divided. I too have gained encouragement and growth. God bless you, brother. Love in Christ, Mark |
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