Results 1 - 7 of 7
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Propitiation or Faith? | Eph 3:6 | Lionstrong | 19202 | ||
Which is it, Bill? "It [propitiaiton] is forgiveness for all sins (unrighteous acts) for all people for all time. It is reconciliation." "But if, while here on earth, you accept God's provision by faith, you are indeed forgiven for all your sins and you have eternal life." Are we forgiven by our Savior's propitiation or by accepting God's provision? Or both? Peace, Lionstrong |
||||||
2 | Propitiation or Faith? | Eph 3:6 | Bill Mc | 19206 | ||
Lionstrong, God's provision for forgiveness is Christ's redemptive work. God so loved the world (everyone) that He gave His only begotten Son (as propitiation) that whosoever (anyone who chooses) believes in Him (by faith) shall not perish but have eternal life (through Christ's resurrected life in us) All sins, except unbelief in Christ's work, are forgiven because Jesus' blood provides the payment for sins - Heb 9:22. With His blood being shed, Jesus proclaimed that forgiveness, "Father, forgive them..." God provided it. But we must receive it. You can't receive something by faith if you don't believe in it, can you? Let's say you were dying from cancer. But a brilliant doctor finally discovers a cure for cancer and mailed you a letter saying that he was sending you the cure. So he mails you the package with the cure in it. But when you got the letter you said, 'Ridiculous, there is no cure for cancer.' So when the cure arrives at your house (that the doctor provided), you simply throw the box in the trash because you don't believe the doctor's letter. If he was truthful and had discovered the cure, you would die needlessly. Not because the cure wasn't provided but because you hadn't received it by faith. Likewise, God has provided forgiveness and salvation for all men. Forgiveness was provided at the cross by Christ's blood. Salvation is provided by Christ's resurrection, eternal life. But not all men have received it by faith. In Christ, Bill Mc |
||||||
3 | Propitiation: Forgiveness or Provision? | Eph 3:6 | Lionstrong | 19209 | ||
So which is it, Brother Bill? "It [propitiation] is forgiveness for all sins (unrighteous acts) for all people for all time. It is reconciliation." "Forgiveness was provided at the cross by Christ's blood." Do we have forgiveness in the propitiation of our Savior or just the provision of it? Which statement are you standing by? Peace, Lionstrong |
||||||
4 | Propitiation: Forgiveness or Provision? | Eph 3:6 | Bill Mc | 19210 | ||
Lionstrong, I guess that I don't understand your question. Why do you perceive that my statements are diametrically opposed? I don't see a conflict. So let's let God respond, "...That God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them...therefore...we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." His words, brother, not mine. Reconciled, Bill Mc |
||||||
5 | Propitiation: Forgiveness or Provision? | Eph 3:6 | Lionstrong | 19213 | ||
Dear Brother Bill, "It [propitiation] is forgiveness for all sins (unrighteous acts) for all people for all time. It is reconciliation." This statement means that I am forgiven. "Forgiveness was provided at the cross by Christ's blood." This statement means that I am not forgiven. So, what are saying about propitiation of the Savior. Are we forgiven by it, or not. Or does it only provide for forgiveness? Peace, Lionstrong |
||||||
6 | Propitiation: Forgiveness or Provision? | Eph 3:6 | Bill Mc | 19225 | ||
Lionstrong, Thanks for the clarification. Now I understand. I believe that all sins were forgiven at the cross, both believers' sins and unbelievers' sins. The forgiveness that we HAVE (posess) was provided at the cross (back then). The forgiveness that OT saints experienced from animal sacrifices, was provided at the cross - Heb 9:15. I don't believe that anyone will go to hell because of their sins (breaking God's law). I believe that they will go to hell because of their unbelief in Jesus Christ and what He accomplished. But again, Lionstrong, forgiveness is not salvation. You are not saved by being forgiven. You are not saved by being reconciled. You are saved by the indwelling life of Christ in you - Rom 5:10, Rom 8:9, John 10:10, the new birth, being born again, being made a new creation, all different words for the regeneration that God causes to happen to believers. Salvation is being saved from the wages of sin (death) by the gift of God, eternal life in Jesus Christ - Rom 6:23. Forgiveness of sins was necessary so that we could have ETERNAL life. If your sins were not forgiven, the first time you sinned after the indwelling of God's Spirit, He would have to leave you. But because sins were, and now are, forgiven, He will never leave us or forsake us. And all of this is experienced through faith. God says that it is true, so I believe it. So the defining issue after the cross, despite all our wrangling of words, is not whether we are forgiven or not. The question to be asked is, 'Are you in Adam or in Christ? Are you born again of not? Is Christ's Spirit in you or not? Are you a new creation or not? Are you spiritually dead to God or alive to God through Jesus Christ?' I hope this answers your question. In Christ, Bill Mc |
||||||
7 | Propitiation: Forgiveness or Provision? | Eph 3:6 | Bill Mc | 19237 | ||
Lionstrong, one other note. BTW, thanks for making think so hard :). I can tell that I have got to choose my words very, very carefully and say exactly what I mean, nothing more, nothing less. I feel like I'm on trial here :). Though forgiveness of sins is provided for the whole world by Christ's work on the cross 2000 years ago, not everyone has received it. It is the same with the way of salvation. It has been provided for on God's part, but our part is to believe by faith and receive it. Forgiveness for sins is not something that you get from God. It is not something that He dispenses as we need it. The forgiveness of sins is found, after the cross, only in Him and is part of our redemption. One cannot have forgiveness apart from having Christ. So though it is (you guys love these words) 'positionally' provided for at the cross, it is not 'experiencially' received until you receive Christ. Supporting scripture: Eph 1:7 - In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace. Col 1:13,14 - For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Acts 10:43 - Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. Acts 13:38 - Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. In conclusion, though forgiveness is provided for my Christ's work at the cross, taking away the sins of the world and reconciling God to man, it is received by faith at conversion or new birth. Thanks again for the challenge. Still forgiven, Bill Mc |
||||||