Results 1 - 2 of 2
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The foundation of the church | Eph 2:20 | Reformer Joe | 69417 | ||
The only shortcomings I see with your definition of an apostle (a 'shepherd of shepherds,' an encourager of other ministers) is that the mantle of apostle is appealed to as a source of final authority in Scripture: "through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake" --Romans 1:5 "If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you; for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord." --1 Corinthians 9:2 "nor did we seek glory from men, either from you or from others, even though as apostles of Christ we might have asserted our authority" --1 Thessalonians 2:6 The apostle also seems to have a revelatory role in the early church, and I would not see present-day ministers in any capacity having a revelatory capacity (but rather an "illuminating" one with reference to God's completed revelation). Now that the Scripture is complete, I hold (as the early church did) that ministers do not produce new teaching/doctrine, but rather authoritatively interpret what is already there. --Joe! |
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2 | The foundation of the church | Eph 2:20 | charis | 69493 | ||
Dear Joe! Greetings in the name of Jesus! You wrote: "The only shortcomings I see with your definition of an apostle (a 'shepherd of shepherds,' an encourager of other ministers) is that the mantle of apostle is appealed to as a source of final authority in Scripture:" Brother, if the only shortcomings you see in my definition of present-day apostles are the 'final authority' argument and attaching a revelatory role to the requirement, we have a discussion! ;-) Since there are no clear ministerial 'job descriptions' set forth in the Bible, there is a certain amount of leeway available here. I do not find a clearly Scriptural mandate for some ministries to 'cease' while others continue. Apparently, the most common argument is that the ministry of apostle and prophet are no longer necessary, while evangelists, pastors and teachers (as well as elders and-or deacons, board members, and in some circles youth pastors, music ministers, worship leaders, bishops, and a variety of specialized non-Biblical ministries) remain valid ministries. It seems that this argument 'rests its case' mostly on the veneration of these two exalted ministries. I, too, am in awe of the Biblical apostles and prophets, but not to the point of denying further need for their present-day ministry to the church. My proposal is based on the work of the apostle and prophet, i.e. continuing to do what they did. This would necessitate a definition of 'apostling' and 'prophesying.' There is little proof that every apostle in the Bible was 'with' the Lord, and even Paul considered himself 'born out of time.' Placing some of the other named apostles 'with' Jesus is difficult. The 'authority' argument begins to thin if we accept these other named apostles as bona fide. Not all wrote Scripture, and not all Bible authors are named as apostles. The revelatory role ties in closely with the ministry of prophet. There is no Biblical mandate requiring prophets to write Scripture or bring forth new revelation. A New Testament prophet may simply be fulfilling the words Paul wrote to the church at Corinth: "But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation." 1 Corinthians 14:3 NASB. My point is the same as many Bible commentators; There is little Scriptural evidence to deny the present-day ministry of apostles and prophets, but to assign a comparitively 'minor' status to them. By 'minor,' we do not detract from their validity or purpose, but only clarify their position in comparison to the ministers described in the Bible. One disclaimer: My proposal in no way condones the abuse we see in this day. I abhor the recent rash (pun intended!) of 'apostles' prostituting themselves on the TV and 'Special Guest Circuit' these days. They mock God and the church with deception and sorcery. These are NOT present-day apostles and prophets. In fact, I believe they show why the history of the church doesn't flaunt these two ministries. If they are of God, there is no need to advertise, they will merely fulfil the Biblical description without fanfare. My friend, I very much agree with you about the role of 'illumination.' This ties in well with the above reference, and is coincides well with my proposal. Indeed, we "authoritatively interpret what is already there." Maybe not 'final authority,' but authority from God nonetheless. Blessings and joy to you and yours! In Christ Jesus, charis |
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