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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Difference backsliden or not saved? | 2 Cor 13:5 | DocTrinsograce | 173559 | ||
Dear Brother Mark, You wrote, "And so it is through the resurrection of Jesus that a work is done in the believer..." No, the work of Christ is atonement. The work of the Father is election. The work of the Holy Spirit is regeneration. (See John chapter 3.) You asked, "So Biblically, regeneration is when the life of Christ is created in a person, and that person is now a new creation. Would you agree or disagree?" Since you insist, I'd have to agree. However your definition is much too general. Certainly the lack of specificity helps you in your arguments, but I'd posit that it is better to come up with a more definition that is not just solely based on the Word, but also everything the Word has to offer toward a definition; in other words, a definition exhaustively based on Scripture. I'm puzzled. When I've offered a complete definition, you want me to agree to a less rigid one. All I can do is refer you back to the definition I've given. You asked, "Doesn't the quote from Carroll disagree with your previous post?" No, Dr. Carroll specifically states that quickening precedes repentance. The word "quickening" is an old English word for being made alive. In other words, tantamount to the metaphor used by Christ as being born again; i.e., rebirth. In Him, Doc "The specific operation of God that is in view in the doctrine of irresistible grace is the divine work of regeneration. Regeneration literally means 'to regenerate again.' It is the concept that rests upon Scripture's teaching concerning rebirth or being born anew. This is the idea expressed in Paul's concept of 'quickening,' by which the sinful person is raised from spiritual death to spiritual life. "Most Christians agree that regeneration is necessary for salvation. The debate rages over the question of how this necessary condition is met. Historic Semi-Pelagianism teaches that in order to be regenerated one first must have faith. In this schema, it is clear that faith precedes regeneration and that regeneration rests upon a prior response to faith. Thus, God is seen as offering salvation to whosoever will cooperate with His grace. "In contrast to all forms of Semi-Pelagianism, Augustianian and Reformed theology teaches that the grace of regeneration is a monergistic work that is done by God alone because it is a work only God can do. It is a work accomplished on us and in us by which our very natures are changed. It is at once a divine act of re-creation and of liberation. By re-creation we are quickened to spiritual life, or raised from the state of spiritual death. "Regeneration is not a joint venture. We do not cooperate in it because we will not cooperate in spiritual matters while we are still dead in our sins. Our hearts are totally disinclined and indisposed to the things of God. We love darkness and will not have God in our thinking. The desires of our hearts are enslaved to sin. We will never choose Christ until or unless we are liberated from that slavery. In short, we are morally unable to exercise faith until and unless we are first regenerated. "This is why the axiom of Reformed theology is that regeneration precedes faith. Rebirth is a necessary pre-condition for faith. Faith is not possible for spiritually dead creatures. Therefore, we contend that apart from spiritual rebirth there can be no faith. "Of course, once the divine initiative of regeneration has been wrought by the sovereign monergistic work of God, the rest of the Christian life is synergistic. But the transformation of the person from death to life, darkness to light, bondage to liberation is done by God alone, effectually and irresistibly. This is the Biblical basis for the church's confession Soli Deo Gloria." --R. C. Sproul |
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2 | Difference backsliden or not saved? | 2 Cor 13:5 | mark d seyler | 173568 | ||
Hi Doc, You have said that you disagree with the statement "And so it is through the resurrection of Jesus that a work is done in the believer..." I would refer you to: 1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, He according to His great mercy having regenerated (from anagennaw - again begotten) us to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead," The Father has regenerated us through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. Your disagreement is not with me, but with Scripture. Regarding the definition of regeneration, I have defined regeneration as rebirth, the single act of the new creation. This is a specific act that takes place at a specific moment of time. I have offered this definition taken straight from the pages of Scripture, without including as a part of this definition it's causes, or results. Simply what it is. I'd like to mention that each of us are being very careful in how we define our terms. That is why I took my definition directly from Scripture. "In my own tradition we carefully define regeneration as "a change of heart, wrought by the Holy Spirit, who quickeneth the dead in trespasses and sins enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the Word of God, and renewing their whole nature, so that they love God and practice holiness. It is a work of God's free and special grace alone." (Abstract of Principles, 1858" So then your traditions define regeneration as "a change of heart". This is not quite in agreement with the words the Bible uses for this. You have added that, in so many words, regeneration includes all of these other things. You have added much to the definition of "regeneration" that is not actually contained in the meanings of the words used. I look to the words used in the Bible and confine my definitions to the way that the writers used the words. Its a simple and naive way to read the Bible, I know, but I'd rather try to understand theology in the terms the Bible uses. I understand that you are saying that you have come to understand that there is much more involved than the simple terminology would seem to show, but I believe that you are backtracking a theology that is not found in the Scriptures and making the words and such fit the theology. So on this we disagree. But meanwhile, I don't think you ever answered if you think that this act of re-creation was performed in the OT saints. Likewise regarding the whether you think the Ezekiel and Jeremiah passages were not actually prophetic. I think I see my difficulty in understanding what Carroll wrote in the same way that you understand it. Carroll stated that rebirth was subject to a person's repentance, while quickening preceded repentance. If you are understanding his use of "quickening" to mean "rebirth", then he is apparently saying that rebirth both produces and is contingent upon repentance. This seems to put the cart both in front of and behind the horse. So then you think of regeneration as a process that includes multiple steps? "A man by himself working and toiling at freedom from passion achieves nothing. But if he plainly shows himself very desirous and earnest about this, he attains it by the addition of the power of God. For God conspires with willing souls. But if they abandon their eagerness, the Spirit who is bestowed by God is also restrained. For to save the unwilling is the part of one exercising compulsion. But to save the willing is that of one showing grace." - Clement of Alexandria (c. 195 AD) "He seeks all and desires to save all. He wishes to make everyone the children of God." - Hippolytus (c. 200 AD) But rather than basing our arguments on the quotes and traditions of men, I find Biblical texts to be much more compelling. Love in Christ, Mark |
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3 | Difference backsliden or not saved? | 2 Cor 13:5 | DocTrinsograce | 173573 | ||
Dear Brother Mark, You wrote, "But rather than basing our arguments on the quotes and traditions of men, I find Biblical texts to be much more compelling." Me too... but I'd add ALL of Scripture... not just pieces here and there... Acts 20:27. "The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself; and therefore when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched by other places that speak more clearly." Thank you for the discussion, buddy. In Him, Doc |
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