Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | New Ideas?? | 2 Cor 11:4 | Victor529 | 156506 | ||
Lionheart, It is my contention that your Fundamentalism / Evangelicalism is relatively new to historical Christianity, is mainly an American phenomenon, and bears no resemblance to anything preceding the Great Awakening of the 1720's. Your denominational distinctives are simply novel and unbiblical. You are ignorant of the writings and theological perspectives of the decades and indeed centuries following Christ. Read the writings of some of martyrs of the first three centuries and you will realize MANY of your views are sheer innovations. If you can't be bothered then ignorance is bliss. You don't need to tell me how you only care what the Bible says. The early Church understood the Bible, many knew the Apostles and there was a genuine lineage between these authors and Christ. You THINK you understand the Bible, it's that simple. Put another way you seem well-versed in contemporary theology in the American Fundamentalist / Evangelical tradition, and you identify it as apostolic biblical Christianity! |
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2 | New Ideas?? | 2 Cor 11:4 | Morant61 | 156511 | ||
Greetings Victor! You claim that we need to be open to 'new ideas' but then condemn us for being novel. Which is it? ;) Seriously, can you give us a few examples of 'our denominational distinctives' that are 'novel and unbiblical'? Speaking in generalities is seldom productive for either side. :-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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3 | New Ideas?? | 2 Cor 11:4 | Victor529 | 156514 | ||
Can I give you "a few examples of 'our denominational distinctives' that are 'novel and unbiblical.'" Yes, certainly. That you would accept, No, which brings us full circle to my initial point. Here goes oh ye of open mind and heart: The acceptance of the real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist was held by all Christians everywhere for 1500 years, and in some form even by Calvin and Luther, that the Eucharist is only a symbol is pure novelty, an innovation that is not supported by Scripture. Do I waste 10 minutes now listing the copious biblical evidence when I know your rejoinders off by heart; AM I GOING TO BE LECTURED ABOUT JESUS THE DOOR TO HEAVEN NOT BEING A PLANK OF WOOD? THE HISTORIC CHRISTIAN CHURCH NEVER DID TEACH THIS. It did teach that God literally inhabited the Ark of the Covenant, the Praises of His People and the Eucharistic species. 1Co 10:16 Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ? Mat 26:26 While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, "Take, eat; this IS My body." Mar 14:22 While they were eating, He took some bread, and after a blessing He broke it, and gave it to them, and said, "Take it; this IS My body." Mar 14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. Luk 22:19 And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me." 1Co 11:24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, "This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me. 1Co 11:29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. NIV is clearer: anyone who eats and drinks without RECOGNIZING the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself. 1Co 11:27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. (Why?). Some early Christian saints and MARTYRS: Ignatius of Antioch "I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible" (Letter to the Romans 7:3 in A.D. 110!!!! Justin Martyr: the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus" (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]). Irenaeus "If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?" (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]). Origen: ‘Formerly, in an obscure way, there was manna for food; now, however, in full view, there is the true food, the flesh of the Word of God, as he himself says: ‘My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink’ [John 6:55]" (Homilies on Numbers 7:2 [A.D. 248]). Cyril of Jerusalem "The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ" (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]). Augustine "Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, ‘This is my body’ [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands" (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]). Council of Ephesus "We will necessarily add this also. Proclaiming the death, according to the flesh, of the only-begotten Son of God, that is Jesus Christ, confessing his resurrection from the dead, and his ascension into heaven, we offer the unbloody sacrifice in the churches, and so go on to the mystical thanksgivings, and are sanctified, having received his holy flesh and the precious blood of Christ the Savior of us all. And not as common flesh do we receive it; God forbid: nor as of a man sanctified and associated with the Word according to the unity of worth, or as having a divine indwelling, but as truly the life-giving and very flesh of the Word himself. For he is the life according to his nature as God, and when he became united to his flesh, he made it also to be life-giving" (Session 1, Letter of Cyril to Nestorius [A.D. 431]). Your doctrine is novel, unhistorical and is alien to Scripture and the first millennium of the Christian Church. Your novelties just do not bear up to historical or biblical scrutiny. I should spare my efforts and follow Matt 7:6 then again Tim someone else might be reading. |
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4 | New Ideas?? | 2 Cor 11:4 | Morant61 | 156516 | ||
Greetings Victor! Amazing! You can tell what I am going to say before I even say it? You already know both sides of the discussion before it even occurs? ;-) You speak of my 'doctrine' but you don't even know what my doctrine is because you will not allow anyone to discuss his doctrine. You simply dismiss it out of hand, and then accuse us of being unwilling to learn or to change. I have done nothing in my interactions with you on this forum but ask honest questions, inviting polite discourse. Yet, you throw Mt. 7:6 at me! :-( Why exactly are you on this forum? Why are you attacking someone who has tried to be a friend? Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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