Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Beware "Another" | 2 Cor 11:4 | humbledbyhisgrace | 156440 | ||
What did the Pope really say? Has anyone looked for themself? Is Doc's statment taken out of context? Or is this a hidden message from the Pope? You decide! Here is a portion of his statments. You will find in this portion what Doc is refering to. Then if you still don't get a clear picture. Try reading the complete Homily to get a clear picture of what this Pope has to say about the "true star". Here is a link to the complete Homily. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2005/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20050821_20th-world-youth-day_en.html Portion of the Pope's Homily: Anyone who has discovered Christ must lead others to him. A great joy cannot be kept to oneself. It has to be passed on. In vast areas of the world today there is a strange forgetfulness of God. It seems as if everything would be just the same even without him. But at the same time there is a feeling of frustration, a sense of dissatisfaction with everyone and everything. People tend to exclaim: “This cannot be what life is about!†Indeed not. And so, together with forgetfulness of God there is a kind of new explosion of religion. I have no wish to discredit all the manifestations of this phenomenon. There may be sincere joy in the discovery. Yet if it is pushed too far, religion becomes almost a consumer product. People choose what they like, and some are even able to make a profit from it. But religion constructed on a “do-it-yourself†basis cannot ultimately help us. It may be comfortable, but at times of crisis we are left to ourselves. Help people to discover the true star which points out the way to us: Jesus Christ! Let us seek to know him better and better, so as to be able to guide others to him with conviction. This is why love for Sacred Scripture is so important, and in consequence, it is important to know the faith of the Church which opens up for us the meaning of Scripture. It is the Holy Spirit who guides the Church as her faith grows, causing her to enter ever more deeply into the truth (cf. Jn 16:13). |
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2 | Beware "Another" | 2 Cor 11:4 | mark d seyler | 156454 | ||
Hi HumbledbyHisgrace, Thank you for doing this research, that we could have a fuller understanding of what the Pope was saying. What do you think he meant when he said, "it is important to know the faith of the Church which opens up for us the meaning of Scripture." What do you think "the faith of the Church" is, and how does it open for us the meaning of Scripture? Love in Christ, Mark |
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3 | Beware "Another" | 2 Cor 11:4 | jlhetrick | 156456 | ||
Hi Mark, This is a great question, thanks for asking it. I would like to comment while we wait on Humbled to respond. Again I think that context can help us understand the Pope's comments. I realize you are asking for an opinion (what is thought) of the statement and agree that opinion is really all any of us can offer. I looked at the quote in context with the immediate statements before and after the statement you quoted. "This is why love for Sacred Scripture is so important, and in consequence, it is important to know the faith of the Church which opens up for us the meaning of Scripture. It is the Holy Spirit who guides the Church as her faith grows, causing her to enter ever more deeply into the truth" The Pope here seems to be putting special emphasis on "love for sacred scripture." He also emphasizes that it is the "Holy Spirit who guides the church as her faith grows." He also atributes to the Holy Spirit as being the "cause" of the church "entering more deeply into the truth." With this in mind, It may be that the Pope has Romans 10:17 in mind. Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Wish we knew for sure what he meant. Jeff |
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4 | Beware "Another" | 2 Cor 11:4 | mark d seyler | 156465 | ||
Hi Jeff, You are oh so right that we can only guess at what this Pope had in mind. For ease of discussion, I will again quote: "This is why love for Sacred Scripture is so important, and in consequence, it is important to know the faith of the Church which opens up for us the meaning of Scripture. It is the Holy Spirit who guides the Church as her faith grows, causing her to enter ever more deeply into the truth" Now, I realize this is a Bible Study Forum, and not a Pope Study Forum, so I want to look at his comments in the light of God's Word. The part that concerns me is his referrence to "the faith of the Church". He gives importance to two things, "love for the Sacred Scripture" and "to know the faith of the Church". My ears perk up because of what the Pope did not say. He did not say that it was important to know the Scriptures. So what is this faith of the Church? Act 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. The faith, in this passage, is something that the priests were obedient to, therefore, it must be or contain commands that can be obeyed. Phi 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: The Law was a religious system, that as you fulfilled the requirements of the Law you could have relationship with God, either by obedience or sacrificial substitutionary propitiation. The Faith of Christ replaces this system, therefore, it must be our means of having relationship with God. Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. This Faith was delivered directly to the saints (all of us believers). Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Again, the is the Faith of Christ. Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. The Faith of the Son of God. The faith of Who? The Church, or of Christ? What is the faith of the Church? Scripture does not contain this concept. This is what it seems to me that this Pope is saying: The Holy Spirit brings the Church more deeply into the truth, guiding the Church as the Church's faith grows. We, as individuals, (notwithstanding that we in fact are the church), must learn from the Church what the truth really is. Love the Scriptures, but learn from the Church. We can't know his thoughts, or his heart, but as far as I can tell, his words are telling us that we need the Catholic Church to interpret the Bible for us. That is fully in line with other things the Catholic Church has said. What do you think? Am I all wet? Love in Christ, Mark |
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5 | Beware "Another" | 2 Cor 11:4 | Bows44 | 156472 | ||
Hi Mark, Regarding your comment... We can't know his thoughts, or his heart, but as far as I can tell, his words are telling us that we need the Catholic Church to interpret the Bible for us. That is fully in line with other things the Catholic Church has said. What do you think? Am I all wet? I was getting something similiar, but I think it can be applied to any denomination. We must love the scriptures and grow in our faith through the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Our church (or more accurately, the body of Christ) is there to help us learn the truth. We learn what our faith means/is by corporate teaching/preaching. In other words, we learn how to live the scriptures by hearing others teach/preach about it in Sunday School and church services. Since he referred to "consumer faith," I believe he is saying that we, as individuals, can't pick and choose what to believe as if we were shopping for groceries. We must study the scriptures and listen to all points of view or instruction from all true members of the body of Christ and allow the Holy Spirit to reveal to us the truth. In this way, we grow in our faith and relationship with Jesus and others. Being as it was the Pope who said it, more than likely he means the Roman Catholic Church, but the concept can be applied to any denomination and the principle of not being able to individually pick and choose what to believe or not believe is valid. Truth is after all truth, no matter who teaches it. It is also true that we who have a relationship with Jesus, need to share with others who do not and attempt to win them to the Lord. Hope this helps, Bows44 |
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6 | Beware "Another" | 2 Cor 11:4 | mark d seyler | 156475 | ||
Hi Bows44, (good to hear from you!) I took his "consumer faith" to be speaking about those who are in it for what they can get out of it, but your perspective makes good point too. That's the real value to me of this forum, in that my comments are currently being examined for correctness by untold numbers of people. Love in Christ, mark |
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