Results 1 - 5 of 5
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Prerequisite-infallibility? | 1 Cor 12:27 | Morant61 | 12534 | ||
Greetings Charis! It is great to have you back on the forum! Let me know when you are in your office sometime and we can hook up on the video conference. It would be good to "meet" face to face. Your question deserves a much better answer, but allow me to address it briefly. My understanding is this: There are three key verses which indicate that the aposltes and prophets served a fundemental role in the start of the church. 1) Eph. 2:20: "built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone." 2) Eph. 3:4-5: "In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets." 3) 2 Peter 3:2: "I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles." Each of these verses seems to indicate that these two groups served in the unique capacity of revealing the Gospel to the world. With the completion of the canon, that function is no longer active. There will not ever be any "new" revelation. This doesn't mean that pastors, teachers, and evangelists are second class in Kingdom work. They also are gifts of God given to build up the body of Christ. The difference though is that they apply what has already been revealed. They do not reveal anything "new." Even the gift of prophecy doesn't reveal anything "new." It simply applies God's revelation to a particular situation. For instance, you cited the example of Luther and "grace." This is a good example of what I am saying. "Grace" isn't new. It was already in God's Word. Luther, as a Pastor/Teacher simply applied it. Concerning infallibility, Scripture doesn't say a lot about the Apostles, but it does say that Prophets had to be 100 percent correct in everything they prophesied. In summary, I would say that when Christ came and the canon was completed, the revelatory function or office of apostles and prophets ceased, in the sense that there will be nothing "new" from God. Salvation history was completed on the cross. The function of applying His Word to build up the church is still in effect. This is the essential and vital role I see for pastors, teachers, and evangelists. If we were only debating whether or not apostles still exist and what role they play if they do, I would see this as more a matter of opinion than anything else. However, if you read the writings of those who are promoting the "five-fold ministry" you will see that they are actually claiming the authority to present "new" revelation from God. Here is where the problem comes in, in my opinion. We do give a special status to the prophets and apostles. Paul wrote under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit. His writtings are God's Word. My writtings, as good as they may be :-), are only my understanding of God's Word. These modern day "apostles" would elevate their writting above Paul's. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Prerequisite-infallibility? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 12654 | ||
Dear Tim, I have already written a lot on this subject (maybe too much?), so I will try not to duplicate. I am not with 'those who are promoting the "five-fold ministry."' (in fact, I am very much against these abusers and pretenders) I am only asking that the Holy Spirit give us the benefit of every gift and ministry that He has so graciously provided. I cannot specifically deny any of these gifts, nor can I 'promote' God's servants to 'special' status. Certain of Paul's (and Peter's, and John's, etc.) writings were chosen by God to be our Bible. I would find it hard to believe they wrote nothing else, or that every word they wrote was the Word, which would imply that God lost them. I still cannot figure out the 'office' and 'function' difference. Are not these but service to God? Actually, I would say that there are more than five ministries unto our Lord and His saints. Blessings, my friend, in Jesus' name! charis |
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3 | The Writings of the Apostles? | 1 Cor 12:27 | Morant61 | 13126 | ||
Greetings Charis! The Apostles did have special status. It was through them that God wrote His revelation to us. From you response I wasn't sure, but do you believe that God choose some of their writtings, or do you believe that God wrote through them? Concering the "office" and "gift" distinction, I don't believe that Eph. 4 refers to spiritual gifts (like 1 Cor. 12-14), rather it refers to the offices given to the church to strengthen it. Gifts are given to every believer, but every believer may not be called to one of these five offices. Notice that the text uses plural nouns. God gave pastors, not the gift of pastoring. This is where I get the idea of an office. Some believers are called to a particular office, like you and I were called to be pastors. But, not every believer is called to an office. I've got to run! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | The Writings of the Apostles? | 1 Cor 12:27 | kalos | 13129 | ||
May I add: The Holy Spirit bestows gifts for service to men. Christ gives the gifted men to the churches. (Compare 1 Corinthians 12:4 and following to Ephesians 4:8,11-12.) --JVH0212 |
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5 | The Writings of the Apostles? | 1 Cor 12:27 | Morant61 | 13133 | ||
Greetings JVH0212! Well said! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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