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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | The Writings of the Apostles? | 1 Cor 12:27 | charis | 13156 | ||
Dear Tim, and saints, Yes, the Twelve Apostles were special. Nobody is arguing that (that I am aware). They were chosen by God for a special purpose. God did write through them (some of) the Bible. Some other writers of the New testament are not identified as apostles. God also chose soem of their writings (is this a trick question?), in the sense that it is very possible that these men wrote other things in their lives-ministries. If we try to say that every word written by these men was inspired by God, then where are they? The canon is finished, so we can assume that subsequent letters cannot be 'found,' nor can we assume that God 'lost' them. Ministers minister, but office-holders don't office. (they administer) Ephesians is very clear that God gave (ministerial) gifts to men, but not necessarily every Christian, but not exclusively to only the Twelve, plus Paul, plus others named as apostles. Ephesians speaks about the need for these ministries until the church is 'done.' Some of my respected colleagues have postulated that the church is 'done' because the canon is finished. I strongly disagree. The canon is finished, but the church is not! "Notice that the text uses plural nouns." Of course! Notice that some have deleted one or two of these five. One of the problems with the church is that we have allowed the ministries within he church to degenerate into 'offices.' No believers were called to an office, including the (mistakenly exalted) apostles to the Lamb. Almost every commentator I have read states that there are three uses of the word 'apostolos' in the Bible. 1)Jesus 2)the Twelve (Matthias was the only 'replacement') and 3)the 'other' apostles. These are sometimes called 'minor,' 'lesser,' or 'general' apostles. But they are called apostles nonetheless! Some have different ideas as to where Paul fits in. Some say that they did not 'self-perpetuate,' but do not back this up in the Scripture. Mostly, it seems that they must admit the existence of these ministers, but their tradition or religion does not allow them to be around today. All of the Bible references to their exclusivity are referring to the Twelve, not the 'others.' Brother, and brethren, I would ask that someone would give me a Biblical definition of 'office,' it's 'institutional' and-or 'organizational' meaning, as compared to a minister, a servant. The crux of the matter is that 'office' denotes an organized religion, closer to the Pharisees than I am comfortable with. Yes, we have a difference of opinion. I chose a simpler, faith-based church that is (still) being led by the Holy Spirit. Some may insist that this means disorganized and irresponsible, but I challenge you to come to Yokohama and see that it is possible to be orderly AND filled with the Holy Spirit. Just because you have never seen it does not mean it is non-existent :-) Peace in Christ Jesus, charis |
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2 | The Writings of the Apostles? | 1 Cor 12:27 | Morant61 | 13185 | ||
Greetings Charis! Thanks for your response brother! This is an awfully difficult subject to address in short questions and answers because of it's complex nature. However, let me deal with a few points of agreement and disagreement. Points of Agreement: 1) The Holy Spirit is still active in the Church: I fully agree with you here. I am a firm believer in the Gifts of the Spirit. More than that, I do not believe that the Gifts refered to in Scripture are simply natural talents, as many today do. I believe that they are Divine enablements, that may or may not conicide with our natural talents, but spring from God's power not ours. The only distinction I make is that the Holy Spirit's work will not add to the completed revelation. 2) There are no minor servants in God's Kingdom: I fully agree with you here as well. Whatever minsitry God calls a person to is valid and important. However, there are different levels of responsibility inherent within each ministry. Points of Disagreement: 1) The nature of an Apostle: We may simply be using different definitions here, I'm not sure. My understanding of an Apostle is based upon Acts 1:20-26: 20 ‘‘For,” said Peter, ‘‘it is written in the book of Psalms, ”‘May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,’ and, ”‘May another take his place of leadership.’ 21 Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.” 23 So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24 Then they prayed, ‘‘Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” 26 Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles. Based upon my understanding of this passage, an Apostle by definition had a limited scope historically speaking. He had to be someone who was with Christ from the beginning, who experienced the resurrection, and who was commissioned as an Apostle by Christ Himself. The 12 fits this definition. Paul, bends this definition somewhat, but received his commission directly from Christ. There are others called apostles in the New Testament. It may be that they also fit this definition (for instance James may have received a special commission from Christ) or it may be that they differ from the 12 in that they were called or commissioned by the church rather than Christ directly. Thus, I don't view the apostles as missionaries or evangelists. They were, in my view, founders of the church. Historically, we know that Apostles did not perpetuate themselves. The early church writers bear witness to the uniqueness of their ministry. 2) The Nature of the Gifts in Ephesians 4: Finally, I also view Eph. 4 as refering to offices not ministerial gifts. I take this view for the following reasons: a) The list in Eph. 4 does not refer to individual gifts, like prophecy, ect... b) The list in Eph. 4 does not refer to individual men. c) Rather, it seems to refer to types of ministry - Pastors, Prophets, ect. This is why I use the term office. These five words seem to describe a ministerial position to which believers are called. As a pastor yourself, you know what I mean. Not everyone is called to be a pastor. Not everyone is called to be an evangelist. Those who are called are placed in that "office" by God Himself. This is all I mean when I speak of an office. I simply refer to a minsitry position to which people are only called by God. It is with this understanding that I say the Apostles and Prophets were offices which fulfilled their purpose, by definition, at the founding of the Church. Is the Church complete? Of course not! That is why pastors, teachers, and evangelists are still working to apply God's Word in the hearts, minds, and lives of people today. Does God still speak to us today? Of course He does! He speaks primarily through His Word, but He also speaks through the indwelling Spirit. However, the Spirit will always be in harmony with the Word. I hope this explains my position a little better. Even if we disagree on this issue, we are still brothers. My only concern, not with you, is that many who promote the restoration of the ministry of an "Apostle" also promote the believe that God gives ongoing "new" revelation through that office. Thus, their theology tends to be very wacky! Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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