Results 1 - 9 of 9
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Nevvvvine | 212027 | ||
Hi Brad: This post is for everyone that have contributed to this thread. I post it to you, for you to be able to add it to your studies. The following is a scripture, I have just found while looking for something else. To me It answers the question in the thread of - - - " Am I Ignorant" ("Are the Gifts of the Holy Spirit for today, or did the Gifts stop when the Apostles died"?) This finding should put to rest, where it should be, the belief called "The Apostolic Age" which has been put forth, as the reason for the ending of the Gifts of the Spirit. Just where did the teaching called "The Apostolic Age" originate? I have added the brackets: EPH.4:7 and 11-16 7) But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13) (Till we all come in the unity of the faith), (and of the knowledge of the Son of God), (unto a perfect man), (unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ): 14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love. Till we all come in the unity of the faith Unless I am mistaken, "Till" means "Till" these things come to pass. I for one do not see where any of the 4 things listed have been fulfilled yet. Therefore if the "TILL" has not come to pass, then the Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers, are "ALL" still needed in the 21 Century Church. If we say, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers are still in the Church, but not Apostles, and that Prophets are a question at this point, then "TILL" has not come to pass. If this 5 fold minestry is still viable, and alive today, then so are the Gifts of the Spirit. The things that need to come to pass are. 1) The Church comes together in the Unity of the faith 2) And the full knowledge of the Son of God. 3) Unto a perfect man. 4) Unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ. For the Church to come unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. The connotation of that statement is that there SHOULD be the Gifts in the Church, which would constitute the measure of his stature, and his fullness. Then vs.16 states, "every joint supplieth, effectual working in the measure of every part", this also signifing a referance to 1 Cor. 12 and 14. listing of the Gifts. In the light of this scripture, it is my belief that most basically these vs. are saying, that "Until" these things in the Church, (Body of Christ) come to pass, all of the 5 ministeries, and including the Gifts of the Spirit, will be needed, and should be in use. God Bless Nevvvvine |
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2 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | skccab | 212037 | ||
Thank you Newwine, One of the best posts of the thread thus far. It goes right along with the other things that folks seem to think are done away with (that I believe scripture speaks quite differently about those things). I, personally, think that that "till" takes us right up to the moment of the "rapture." Just my 2cents thrown in :o) Cheri |
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3 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Val | 212039 | ||
Greetings Cheri, What things "folks seem to think are done away with" are you referring to? I am sorry if I may be misunderstanding you. The book of Hebrews contrasts the Mosiac covenant with the new covenant. Specifically Hebrews Eight says Heb 8:1 Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, Heb 8:2 a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. Heb 8:3 For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. Heb 8:4 Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law; Heb 8:5 who serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things, just as Moses was warned by God when he was about to erect the tabernacle; for, "SEE," He says, "THAT YOU MAKE all things ACCORDING TO THE PATTERN WHICH WAS SHOWN YOU ON THE MOUNTAIN." Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, He says, "BEHOLD, DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL EFFECT A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH; Heb 8:9 NOT LIKE THE COVENANT WHICH I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS ON THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; FOR THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DID NOT CARE FOR THEM, SAYS THE LORD. Heb 8:10 "FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MINDS, AND I WILL WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS. AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. Heb 8:11 "AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERYONE HIS FELLOW CITIZEN, AND EVERYONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL WILL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM. Heb 8:12 "FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SINS NO MORE." Heb 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. Cheri, how would you interpret Hebrews 8:13? Also we can look to the council at Jerusalem where the apostles met and ask the question concerning the gentiles "did they have to become jews to be christians". The answer was no they didn't but that they did need to abstain from certain things. Help me to understand what things we think are done away with and provide some scriptures to back up what you are talking about. Right now I am totally confused. Your sister in Christ, Val |
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4 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | skccab | 212041 | ||
Val, My email is in my profile. I have absolutely no desire to get into a debate with anyone (and a debate would ensue). If you wish to email me I will be more than happy to discuss this further with you, but not here on the Forum. Cheri |
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5 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Val | 212043 | ||
Greetings Cheri, I was responding to your comments. No problem. Blessings Val | ||||||
6 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | skccab | 212053 | ||
Shalom Val, Sorry, it's been so long. Had prayers to go to, then I locked the keys to my car in my car. Lovely night!!!! hahaha I didn't mean to cut you off short - I figured you knew what I was talking about. Some people think the Law is abolished, some don't think that - that's what I meant and just didn't want to get into a debate with others (didn't think that I would with you or some of the others who know me). I try very hard to keep my fellowship with you wonderful folks as debate free as possible, even tho I'm kinda out in left field - it's still the same playing field :o). Ah, it's already the Lord's day for you, have a blessed one!! Cheri |
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7 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Val | 212062 | ||
Merry Christmas Cheri, Hope you are feeling better these days. I know this topic hits a nerve with you so we'll not go there. I have studied and am still studying the book of Hebrews so if you see anything in there you would like to discuss we can do it respectfully and with dignity when and if you like. I know as I study the bible sometimes I will leave a topic and come back to it later as the Spirit leads. May you continue to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Your sister in Christ - Val | ||||||
8 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | skccab | 212064 | ||
Shalom Val, I've studied Hebrews in depth a little over a year ago, and am just beginning to do so again. having just gotten through the introduction study, at this point. It's full of gems, isn't it? Cheri |
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9 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Val | 212075 | ||
Greetings Cheri, Could you elaborate using verses and your conclusions. If not thats find. Blessings Val | ||||||