Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | Morant61 | 211008 | ||
Greetings Doc! Sorry that I could not respond earlier my friend! I have been busy and when I received the e-mail notice, the forum was down. Rather than enter into a lengthy debate, allow me to simply say this. I have read this thread and the arguments made concerning the supposed cessation of Spiritual gifts. Scripture certainly does say that they WILL end, but it does not say that they HAVE ended. My position is that the gifts of the Spirit are just as valid today as they have ever been, in fact, they may be more needed today than they were in the first century. The 'leap of faith' was in reference to stepping out in faith and obeying what the Spirit is telling someone to do, not to trusting something other than Scripture. In my view, the argument that the gifts have ceased is a worst case example of eisgesis and arguments from silence. An entire doctrine is built upon something that Scripture never once says. So, we will probably never agree on yet another issue. ;-) Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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2 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | BMyers | 211079 | ||
I have actually found this whole discussion very interesting. The more I have read on Cessationism, the more I have found that they can't even agree on what they believe. Scriptural proof is lacking for Cessationism view point. I have read the various study notes in Zondervan Study Bible, ESV Study Bible, read several different commentaries, three different Bible dictionaries, and I don't know how many different websites. I have also ordered books, on the topic (which they haven't arrived yet). So far, I see nothing making Cessationism the correct interpretation, except for the fact that you want to try to limit God. Are people still being healed today? Yes! The hardest part for me is to remembering the last part of 1 Peter 3:15 -gentleness and respect. At this I'm sure I have failed. As we are all guilty of, some time our passions for defending the Word overwhelms the last part of the scripture. I will continue to read and research and most importantly pray about the issue, but for now I will continue to believe and live in a life that is Spirit filled and active in Christ. Brad |
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3 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | DocTrinsograce | 211083 | ||
Hi, Brad... Now that you've done some study, please list the variations on Cessationism that you are uncovering. It would be interesting to see in precisely what ways they differ in their views. Also, if you wouldn't mind, site the sources of these differing views. Remember that this is also one of those doctrines that must yield documented facts. Since these gifts are to be a sign, then we will find clear evidence of validating them. That will be a powerful testimony to the lost with irrefutable evidence -- as opposed to the Benny Hinn anecdotal stuff. Thank you for taking the time to share the fruit of your studies. In Him, Doc |
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4 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | BMyers | 211102 | ||
Start out with, here is the best description of the different Cessationism view points that I have come across. Concentric Cessationists believe that the miraculous gifts have indeed ceased in the mainstream church and evangelized areas, but appear in unreached areas as an aid to spreading the Gospel. Classical cessationists assert that the "sign gifts" such as prophecy, healing and speaking in tongues ceased with the apostles and the finishing of the canon of Scripture. They only served as launching pads for the spreading of the Gospel; as affirmations of God's revelation. However, these cessationists do believe that God still occasionally does miracles today, such as healings or divine guidance, so long as these "miracles" do not accredit new doctrine or add to the New Testament canon. Full Cessationists argue that along with no miraculous gifts, there are also no miracles performed by God today. This argument, of course, turns on one's understanding of the term, "miracle." Consistent Cessationists believe that not only were the miraculous gifts only for the establishment of the first-century church, but the so-called five-fold ministry found in Eph. 4 was also a transitional institution (i.e., There are no more apostles or prophets, but also no more pastors, teachers, or evangelists). I wish I could take credit for the categories, but I can't, they are taken from a websites (which appears to either be copied from or to Wikipedia). Comparing the categories, with what information I have found online seem to line up with the categories (except the last one, I haven't found a site yet that says prechers and teachers are no longer, just apostles or prophets). I was surprised to see that several didn't believe that all the gifts have ceased, just tongues, knowledge’s, and prophesy. I'm waiting for my books to come, the one recommend here in this discussion and another by Dr. Gordon Fee. Have to get the little one for bed, but hopefully this will give you something to chew on. Brad |
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5 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | DocTrinsograce | 211106 | ||
Dear Brad, Thank you for sharing. I've not read of these categorizations per se. However, each sound very familiar. Consequently, I suspect that I've encountered them elsewhere. Labels are so handy. They are like the fulcrums and levers of the linguistic world. God doesn't need them, of course, nevertheless they are of His own invention, early in creation, for our benefit (see Genesis 1:5). The reason you're thinking of Cessationism as fragmented is because you are looking at it from a Continuationist perspective. You see, Continuationism and Cessationism occupy obvious extremes within a spectrum of possibilities. Any one of the other views, except Full Cessationism, might be considered forms of partial Continuationism. I've been meaning to go back and see how Warfield and, more recently, Grudem have touched on the question. Off to bed, I'm afraid. Thank you, again, for sharing. In Him, Doc |
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6 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | humbledbyhisgrace | 211110 | ||
Greetings Doc! My duties to study and ministry has kept me busy of late so I'm not spending much time on line. Sort of hit and miss lately. But I peeked in on this thread today to see what was up. Here's a good start on Grudem's position... http://www.challies.com/archives/interviews/continuationism.php I've also listen to him regarding some of the gifts as is relevant to this discussion on Piper's web site. http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/ConferenceMessages/ByConference/19/ There are several audio clips on this page. It comes from the 1991 Pastors Conference (Spiritual Gifts and the Sovereignty of God). Steve |
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7 | Am I ignorant | 1 Cor 12:1 | DocTrinsograce | 211137 | ||
Thank you, brother Steve! B. B. Warfield wrote on "Counterfeit Miracles" here: http://www.christianbeliefs.org/books/cm/cm-charisma.html |
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