Results 1 - 6 of 6
|
|
|||||
Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | why is toiauten translated 'other' here | 1 Cor 11:16 | Morant61 | 149451 | ||
Greetings Kalos! That is why I was so surprised to see the NASB, and so many other translations, use 'other' instead of 'such'. Here is some interesting comments from an article I found on this issue. ***************************************** No Other Custom or No Such Custom? It is amazing that in many articles and popular discussions relatively little value has been placed on Paul’s final comments in the passage (11:16). In fact, John Calvin, usually a very reliable commentator, does not even comment on the phrase “we have no such custom,” or take time to explain these terms in his commentary. Likewise, I recently listened to three hours of teaching on the subject which was to be an exposition of 11:2-16....While other verses were dealt with in fine detail, all that was mentioned on verse 16 was that “this verse tells us that all the churches enforced the practice of head covering in worship for women.” Almost every other important term was detailed, verse 16 receive no such attention. Influential Greek scholar, Daniel B. Wallace of Dallas Theological seminary merely says, “How do we reconcile 1 Cor 11:2 with 1 Cor 11:16? Verse 2 governs v 16. That is to say, because the practice was a paradosis, it was put on the level of orthopraxy.” He argues that headcovering was the “outworking of this ‘tradition.’” He reasons, This would be like saying, ‘Christ died for you; therefore, you should observe the Lord’s Supper. Besides, other Christians are already doing this and none have a different practice.’ The practice puts flesh to the doctrine. This is a helpful analogy to clarify his view, which is that the tradition is a meaningful symbol with allowance for cultural variations. A critical issue, which deserves some attention, is the two ways verse 16 are translated. This is, after all, Paul’s summative comment on the matter. Consider the translations: NAS 1 Corinthians 11:16 But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God. NIV 1 Corinthians 11:16 If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice-- nor do the churches of God. Note the difference below: NKJ 1 Corinthians 11:16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God. NRS 1 Corinthians 11:16 But if anyone is disposed to be contentious-- we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God. While NAS/NIV have “no other” practice or custom, NKJ/NRS have “no such” custom. What accounts for this difference? The demonstrative adjective, toioutos [toiauten - in this verse it is accusative, feminine singular]. The difference is illustrated wittily by Gordon Clark in his commentary on this passage. Do you have turkey for Thanksgiving? We have no such custom. Do you have turkey for Thanksgiving? We have no other custom. These are entirely antithetical interpretations. Is the term toioutos to be translated, “other” or “such”? As a matter of record, no other passage in the Greek NT has this term (toioutos) translated “other.” We have no such passage. It is not translated in any other way. Moreover, in none of the Greek lexicons of which I know is “other” even given as a possible definition (Liddell-Scott, Louw-Nida, Thayers, UBS, Friberg). It would appear that the NAS/NIV translate this as “other” because they just can’t see how Paul could conclude with saying that we do not have a determined practice on this matter. On the contrary, it can hardly be disputed on basic lexical grounds that toioutos means “such” and not “other.” Hence, the KJV, ASV, NKJ, RSV, NRS are all correct: “But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such (toioutos) custom, nor do the churches of God.” (One wonders how many other translation decisions by the NAS/NIV et al have been made by what the translators think or expect the Biblical writers should say.) ....Thus, the entire discussion has is framed between the paradosis in verse 2 and the sunetheia in verse 16. This is what I believe he says: imitate me, keep the paradosis, but we have no sunetheia on head covering. Thus, Paul concluded with words which should be definitive about the matter. In keeping with holding the authoritative headship instruction, yet imitating him in not offending for the sake of the gospel, please observe his (actual, not our expected) conclusion: we have no such custom (of a head covering requirement). Source: http://www.wordmp3.com/gs/headcovering.htm ***************************************** Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
2 | why is toiauten translated 'other' here | 1 Cor 11:16 | Ray | 149465 | ||
Hi Tim, Why can't we just say "We have no other practice such as this [one], nor have the churches of God." Strong's #5108, toioutos; from toios (such, such-like) and 3778; such as this, such: From the heart, Ray |
||||||
3 | why is toiauten translated 'other' here | 1 Cor 11:16 | Morant61 | 149470 | ||
Greetings Ray! Because there is no word for 'other' in the Greek. The clause literally reads: "We have no such practice..." 'No other practice' and 'no such practice' have opposite meanings. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
4 | why is toiauten translated 'other' here | 1 Cor 11:16 | Ray | 149493 | ||
Hi Tim, I know that there is no word for 'other' in the Greek for 1 Corinthians 11:16. But you missed my Strong's reference for "as this". If you talk of a practice "such as this" you are inferring a similar or other practice. From the heart, Ray |
||||||
5 | why is toiauten translated 'other' here | 1 Cor 11:16 | Morant61 | 149504 | ||
Greetings Ray! Thanks for the clarification! :-) As best as I can determine, the meaning 'such as this' or 'like this' only occurs with the definite article. Otherwise, when it is used as an adjective without the article, it is simply translated as 'such'. Almost every source I have consulted has been puzzled by the translation of this word as 'other'. It does not appear to be a legitimate translation, but appears to be a forced interpretation. Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
||||||
6 | why is toiauten translated 'other' here | 1 Cor 11:16 | Ray | 149515 | ||
Hi Tim, Another thing we can consider is that "custom" or practice is singular. My Greek Interlinear by Green reads, "But if anyone thinks to be contentious, we do not have such a custom, neither the churches of God." 1) As I think about these things, I am reminded of 1 Corinthians 9:9, NKJ, "...Is it oxen God is concerned about?" Is it oxen or is it "He" that is in the question? Verse 10 goes on and says, "Or is He speaking altogether for our sake? Yes, for our sake it was written, because the plowman ought to plow in hope,..." In the same way, I would ask "Is God concerned about a head of hair?" No, He is concerned about Headship. And yet, He is speaking for our sake as well. 1 Corinthians 9:1, NKJ, "Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 2 If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtles I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord." 2) Perhaps we should take a closer look at 1 Corinthians 11:3 and 4, and be less concerned about hair and traditions. From the heart, Ray |
||||||