Results 1 - 7 of 7
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What's up with the italics in vs. 23? | Rom 9:23 | Mommapbs | 86686 | ||
Thank you for your reply - I think :)You kind of lost me on the first part . . . when I read God's Word, He directs my thinking, not some topic or doctrine. So where does this fit in with your analysis of how I approach Scripture? The plethora of "doctrines" that are represented here at the Forum has been a challenge to me at times, (I had no idea what a Calvinist was !) for I do endeavor to study God's Word in the Berean tradition; I desire to have a "teachable spirit". As I sit under the instruction of God's shepherds, I don't swallow every word hook, line and sinker, but I rely upon the Spirit to prompt me toward further study of God's Word to see if what they say is so. I find some shepherds more reliable than others, but ultimately, I rely upon my instruction from the Good Shepherd. Do you see me wield the sword of predestination? How? I'm sorry you missed the blessing I wrote: "May this endeavor(your desire to question this translation which I stated in the opening) draw you closer to Him." There are those who seek to strain camels and then there are those who seek to strain gnats - but if the task is not God led, and if the strainer is not the authority of God's Word - what will be the end result? In all humility we are to esteem each other. Obviously, God has gifted you with an intellect to use for His glory. When one challenges another it should be as "iron sharpens iron" so I thank you for your observations and I will think on them. It is MY opinion that if God chooses to use you as an instrument of His authority - so be it. May God bless you in your endeavor, mommapbs PS: You have been politely asked to introduce yourself via the personal profile section of this site - I encourage you to do so! |
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2 | What's up with the italics in vs. 23? | Rom 9:23 | Whitewave | 86721 | ||
Hia. PS first: I'm sorry about the profile thing, I haven't had time yet. I'll get to it soon. I only have one day off this weekend and I have to get my chores done as well as go with my Mom to help her finish cleaning out the house she just moved out of today. That will be an all day job, and I'm likely to be occupied with cooking and such 'til late tonight, then it's back to the grind. I promise I'll get to it. I myself have had the same desire in my heart to seek as the "Berean". I endeavored to have a teachable spirit and learn with humility and respect. I believed that God would honor that with wisdom and knowledge and some degree of respect from my family and community. Those things never came to me even though the Bible told me so. I had to come to some conclusions about that. After I found out what a Calvinist was, I realized that I had been taught mainly with that tradition so most of my thinking was based on that concept. I felt as if the Authorities were keeping Armenianism a secret from me. This sort of thing has happened to me over and over with other doctrines; inerrancy, rapture, dispensationalism, hypostatic union and others. The more it happens, the less I tend to trust any one denomination, teacher, tradition or theological construct to teach me what really is. While I think most people nowadays don't put all their eggs in any one denominational basket, there are still many who don't realize that their worldview is limited to what teaching they've been exposed to. They don't realize that they are still wearing the Calvinist glasses to read the Bible. This is what I was trying to show you. I had to learn it too. There are many ideas out there that you have no doubt been "protected" from being exposed to. There are shepherds who believe that their job is to tell you only what you can "handle" so that you don't become confused even though they know better. For instance: there are many ideas about what happens to us after we die which people in the pews need to believe, but which any Pastor who has gone to more than one good class can tell you is not the actual truth from the Bible. But do they tell us? No. When you interact with people at funerals, I'm sure you can understand why. The sword of Predestination was used when you suggested that I trust that all things will work out in the end and to not usurp authority by trying to change what's happening here and now. That is the "use" of the sword. [Using the sword of Predestination could be a good topic for a string if I had the time and energy for it, but I don't right now.] Hm. I think the metaphor of straining at gnats and swallowing camels is different than what you meant here. But I think I see what you mean. One of the things I discovered in my research on alternative ideas about the authority of Scripture is that we tend to talk about the Bible as if it is the final authority. (see this page: http://www.gospelcom.net/lockman/tlf/tlfabout.php and note the 4th sub-statement within the last part (the "fourfold aim" part) under the subtitle "Mission Statement") The Lockman Foundation makes it appear as if Jesus Christ is subservient to the Bible. Of course, that would be silly. If the Bible is in an arm wrestling match with the True God of the Universe, who will win? Obviously it's not the Bible. But we ignore this obvious fault in our statement because of what we believe about knowledge. It is this underlying belief about knowledge that I am questioning, not the trustworthiness of the Bible. God, bless you as well, and I did not miss the blessing, I just saw what appeared to be a contradiction to it. Whitewave |
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3 | What's up with the italics in vs. 23? | Rom 9:23 | Mommapbs | 86740 | ||
Greetings Whitewave: Thanks for submittng your profile, I appreciate the inside look you have given to us about yourself. You claim to not question the "trustworthiness of the Bible" yet it appears that you do not accept God's Word as the FINAL Authority for your life. Whitewave, until you get this issue settled, you will never be free from the things you have chosen to believe which have resulted in the person I am reading about in your profile. My prayer for you is that you will choose to be senstitve to the Holy Spirit and allow Him to reveal HIS TRUTH to you. He alone is able to convict and convince you of the Authority of God's Word. It appears that you have allowed experiences, circumstances and feelings to persuade and direct your thinking. Yet God's Word tells us that we must change the way we THINK - we do this by not conforming to the pattern (of the world's knoweldge) of the world, but to be transformed by the Word of God which is able to make us WISE - one who has Christ, has His mind, enabling the believer to understand the deep things of God. (1Cor 2:9-16) You wrote, "The sword of Predestination was used when you suggested that I trust that all things will work out in the end and to not usurp authority by trying to change what's happening here and now. That is the "use" of the sword." First of all, your understanding of predestination and mine appear to differ - I suspect you are more concerned with the concept of predeterminism. Yet from what you have written, you are not rejecting MY suggestion, but rather the authority of God's Word for it is written " All things work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purpose." There is MUCH meat in this verse for us to consider, chew on and digest. From what you have written, it appears the you have reviewed the "menu" and rejected certain portions of it. Also, there are stern warninga about adding to or taking away from God's Word. MY opinion, which I glean from God's Word is this: I believe that God has given us freedom of choice - He has revealed Himself to us through His Word, through His Spirit, through other believers, and through the circumstances He allows us to experience. We are in control of our response to each of these. What we choose to believe will determine who we are and how we perceive ourself. I commend you for your honesty in recognizing your low self esteem. This in and of itself is a RED FLAG! For it reveals that you have chosen to believe the lies of the devil - I can never measure up, I am a failure, I am worhtless, I cannot change, I am hopeless, etc. This is absolutely contrary to what God's Word says about you! However, these Truths will not take root in your Spirit until you have settled the issue of authority in your life. God is the Author of Life - in Him alone is found Authority. God's Word is the "Owner's manual" for those who choose to belong to Him. I urge you to CHOOSE to change the way you think and allow God to transform your mind by the power of His Holy Spirit so that you will not only be assured of your salvation, but of your immeasurable WORTH in Him and to Him! May the Peace of God be yous, mommapbs |
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4 | What's up with the italics in vs. 23? | Rom 9:23 | Whitewave | 86753 | ||
"Here they come..." All this reflects many common misunderstandings. The top of the Authority ladder is not the Bible. The top of the Authority ladder is GOD. Skip the "yeah, but..."s. It's God. God. God. "God's Word" is anything He expresses. This includes much of the Bible, but mainly His ultimate expression is Jesus Christ. "Expresses" is a general term, not a technical one. I'm using it to signify anything that comes out of Him. There are things which have come out of God which are not contained within the pages, and there are things which are within the pages, which did not come out of God. I'm not talking about the fact that the history is recorded, that is a God thing. I'm talking about what that history records. I'll give you only one verse. 1 Cor. 7:12 If you want to hash all this out with me, then it may go kinda slow because going over this issue again with yet another person who doesn't know me is not high on my priority list. You are panicking over nothing, because if you met me you would see that there are few other people who warm the pews every Sunday at even the most conservative churches who respect the Bible as much as I do. In practice, I revere the Bible greatly. The theories that I have been exposed to, however, do not fit neatly into the simplistic catagories that you seem to limit me to. I'm sorry, but you do not know me and are jumping to conclusions about my faith that are just false. This entire post has the faint scent of reactionary deffensiveness. I'm going to guess about this, even though I may be wrong, and say straight up- that I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings by questioning your authority here. I may have been too harsh in my treatment of your first post and so offended you. You obviously care alot about people's walk and their faith. I'll tell you honestly that I don't usually read people's profiles because I want to respond to their text directly, without any interferance from status or age or gender or whatever. Those things tend to bring an influence that does not neccarily coincide with how a person interacts with others. Perhaps you don't know many people who are as honest about themselves and their lives as I have been in my profile. This too is sadly common in the Church. I can assure you that my struggles are the same struggles that surround you when you sit in Church every Sunday. On the surface, people may smile and laugh and say, "AMEN!" and act as if all were glory and victory. But, I assure you, under that veneer are hurting, confused, angry, bereft human beings. The lie of the devil is this: "A Christian's life should be good and satisfying and happy and well and they should have nothing to scream or cry about." Much of what you've written reflects things I was taught years ago and used to believe. [Please read that last sentence again.] There is no experience in my life which is uncommon to man. Just because I too feel the sentence of death, like Paul, doesn't mean it is a result of not believing as you believe about the Bible. I suspect we are both trying to be patient with one another. You are an evangelical. I am not. In terms of faith, I have been where you are. You have not been where I am. I must go. Whitewave |
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5 | What's up with the italics in vs. 23? | Rom 9:23 | Mommapbs | 86773 | ||
Greetings Whitewave: No, you have not offended me with your posts nor did you hurt my feelings. No, you did not question my authority for I stand upon the Authority of God's revealed Word. But in terms of faith, you are not where I am, nor have you been. I am not where you are nor will I be. I do not know you personally, true. But I do recognize some things about you from what you have written. ("As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.") You can't pick and choose what to believe in God's Word; either is is what it claims to be, or it is not. This is a Forum that presumes the authority of God's Word, yet you have stated that you do not believe in the authority of the Bible. DO you have Peace? mommapbs |
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6 | What's up with the italics in vs. 23? | Rom 9:23 | Whitewave | 86832 | ||
nnnnnnn-k. I've looked at our conversation again and I see that I got dragged into a debate about some things that I did not come here to debate. I left myself open to it to some extent, but I'm sure that I've tried to stick to the topic. You are treating me inappropriately. I have been advised to blow you off. I'm going to take 3 days off from reading your posts in order to cool off, then hopefully the inspiration for how to respond kindly to you will come to me. Whitewave |
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7 | What's up with the italics in vs. 23? | Rom 9:23 | Hank | 86839 | ||
Dear Whitewave: I come not specifically to defend Mommapbs, although I have enormous respect for this user and admire the general tone and spirit of the many posts she has contributed to this forum. Nor do I come to chasten you. Mommapbs, not unlike the majority of forum users, holds the Bible in high esteem and defends it as being the inerrant word of God. I don't see Mommapbs' posts on this thread as constituting an "inappropriate" treatment of you personally; they obviously are in disagreement with some of your statements that you have entered concerning the authority of Scripture, statements with which I also disagree. But please don't take these disagreements with your position to mean that they are directed to you in a personal sense, because I don't for a moment believe that Mommapbs has ever posted to this forum with any malicious intent. You will find -- indeed you may already have found -- that you or anyone else will be challenged on this forum to the extent that you bring into question the inerrancy and authority of Scripture. As regards your inter-action with Mommapbs or with any other forum user, may I suggest that you take your own self-prescribed advice and "cool off" instead of posting something in anger for which you may have occasion later to regret :-) That's prime advice for us all, this writer included! We all of us live too much in a frenzy in our hurly-burly world. How we need to slow down and number ourselves among "those who wait on the Lord (who) shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings like eagles, they shall run and not be weary, they shall walk and not faint." (Isaiah 40:31). Whitewave, my welcome to you still stands; I trust you will find no offense in this my effort to smooth over the friction that has arisen; and I pray that you will find in your participation on this forum some measure of spiritual growth for yourself as well as being a source of help and inspiration to others. May God's word always be a lamp to your feet and a light to your path. --Hank | ||||||