Results 1 - 4 of 4
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | What's up with the italics in vs. 23? | Rom 9:23 | Whitewave | 86316 | ||
Does anyone out there see what I see? What is up with the italics bit? The quesion posed in vs. 22,23 is an open, hypothetical question. It is not closed with an answer. Why did the NASB folks close it? No other translation does this. The difference between "And He did so to make known..." and "And what if He thus purposes to make known..." is HUGE!!! Why hasn't anyone questioned this so far? Whitewave |
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2 | What's up with the italics in vs. 23? | Rom 9:23 | Mommapbs | 86664 | ||
Greetings Whitewave - I've just read through this thread and although I am no scholar and have no background in all this translation stuff, if God has set this desire in your heart, then you will be blessed in pursuing it. This morning, my focus has been on the sovereignty of God and that we are God's possession. (God spoke to Jeremiah saying, "I have made the earth, the men and the beasts which are on the face of the earth by My great power and by My outstretched arm, and I will give it to the one who is pleasing in My sight." Jer 23:5) I believe these truths rings loudly in Romans 9. In verses 14-21, the question of God's "right" is already asked and established, so to translate as the NASB has done does not seem (to me anyway) to change the underlying premise, and supports the stated purpose of God which I believe Paul presumes the reader, (remember he is writing to Jews,) knows. As I read this passage I am reminded that mercy without justice is not mercy. To me, these verses underscore God's sovereignty and purpose in dealing with mankind. v 22: "What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? v 23: And (what if)He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, Paul asks a rhetorical question of sorts akin to "So what if God chose to . . . so what if God - this is as much to say, SO WHAT? . . . So, should the pot ask the Potter why did you make me this way? SO WHAT! Since we all have a burning desire to know WHY? (Which of course can only be answered by WHO?) I suspect the NASB translators took a "liberty" of sorts - one that you have questioned. However, to me, it is supported by the premise of God's sovereignty in this statement "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." (Romans 9:15) and His purpose throughout Scripture to reconcile mankind back to Himself. Ponder these things. Know also that if these translators have erred, they will be held accountable by God - let's not usurp His authority. Our responsibility is to seek the Truth and that is found in a PERSON - Jesus. May this endeavor draw you closer to Him. mommapbs |
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3 | What's up with the italics in vs. 23? | Rom 9:23 | Whitewave | 86679 | ||
Thank you for your encouragement. I think you have just demonstrated what I am concerned about. Note the structure of your post: [Doctrinal idea] "This morning, my focus has been on the sovereignty of God and that we are God's possession." (OT Scripture quote.) [Movement from doctrine to scripture in question] "I believe these truths rings loudly in Romans 9. In verses 14-21" [Assimilation of idea and target scripture] "supports the stated purpose of God which I believe Paul presumes the reader... knows." [outcome of assimilation] "As I read this passage I am reminded" [Target NT Scripture quote] [Restating Scripture using outcome of assimilation] ""So what if God chose to . . . SO WHAT!"" [Introduction of previously undeveloped Anthropological idea] "Since we all have a burning desire to know WHY?" [Speculation about Translator's rendering of Scripture in question using new idea- assimilation not demonstrated but assumed] "I suspect the NASB translators took a "liberty"" [Statement of Faith in justification of Translator's rendering using another related Scripture] "However, to me, it is supported by..." (NT Scripture quote) [Suggestion that reader consider presented argument] "Ponder these things." [Authoritative reminder to not question Authority] "..let's not usurp His authority." [Closing Blessing] [Signature] ___________ This is my undisciplined form of deconstruction. It is a wonderful tool that provides an opportunity to learn alot about why we think we know what we know. The truth is that I would probably construct a post very similar to it in response. But I would NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER include that last bit about usurping "God"'s authority! Never! It even seems contradictory to what you began with at the top of the post: "if God has set this desire in your heart, then you will be blessed in pursuing it." I'm going to suggest some things for you to think about as well. One objective of Teaching is to teach people how to think, not just what to think. Babies must be fed by another. When we grow up, we feed ourselves and decide if what goes in our mouth actually goes down our throats or not. Your interpretaion of Scripture seems to be built upon a solid foundation of Doctrine instead of the other way 'round. We all do it. I do it. I have earned the right to question the interpretations of others because I question my own on a regular basis. While I understand deeply the importance of the idea of "Revelation" to the rhelm of Theological thought, I do not confuse the Revelation of God with the words that I read in in an English Bible Translation. The two are not neccessarily the same. Nor am I a fatalist, believing that what exists, is good enough because it has had to pass through God's judgement about what may or may not exist in order to exist at all. The reason I tend to ignore arguments about Predestination and all is because bad things like this happen when we do: "they will be held accountable by God - let's not usurp His authority." This denies the validity of any just action taken by the Church in this world today. The whole anti-abortion movement in the 90's drilled us on the failings of this kind of idea. The lack of resistance to Hitler was backed up by this idea as well. Be careful when weilding the sword of Predestination. I don't think it's meant for our hands at all. I don't think Paul uses it himself to slay dragons of complaint. I think he just picks it up and holds it and says, "What if it were used thusly?" ...and then puts it down. It's too easy for us humans to try to use it to back up our own prefered scenarios and support our worldly fears. God Himself uses it in the end of Job. Jesus uses it when answering one of Peter's many questions after the Resurection. It doesn't really belong to us. God, Bless you. Whitewave |
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4 | What's up with the italics in vs. 23? | Rom 9:23 | Emmaus | 86684 | ||
Whitewave, The following link has an article titled, Reading the Bible from the Heart of the Church. It touches on the subject you are discussing. you may or may not agree with it, but I think you will find it an interesting. http://www.salvationhistory.com/home.cfm Emmaus |
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