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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Can we live life without sinning? | Rom 6:12 | DocTrinsograce | 209294 | ||
Dear Lookin, First, if you deem Zechariah as having moral perfection, he appears to have lost it (Luke 1:18) with the sin of unbelief. Presumably he regained it again, though, in verse 67. Be that as it may, I'd take issue with your exegesis of verse 6, though, in treating the righteousness of these folks as being equivalent in every way to the righteousness of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1b). If there were such people, why they wouldn't even need a Savior! Second, you're right, inductive reasoning is not a sure foundation on which to base conclusions. Yet, I see living and walking examples of faith, repentance, conversion, love, hope, peace, joy, etc. Interesting that one can even see examples of -- objectively and subjectively -- progressive sanctification. Examples of the living out of Wesleyan/Finneyism teaching of moral perfection is notably absent. (Or, at least, rare by your own admission.) Third, sure, our judgment can be skewed -- we should expect as much because of total depravity. We needn't revise our standard so that some people manage to squeak in under the new measure. We have the perfect (excuse the redundancy) rule for righteousness stated in the Word and exemplified by the Word in the flesh: the Lord Jesus Christ. Fourth, that's cool. I'm eager to have met someone who loved the Lord God with all their heart and all their soul and all their mind. Save for the example of Christ Himself, I'm unsure what it would even look like. (I wonder why Wesley, Finney, and Parham never managed the feat?) As to your conclusions, all I can earnestly and honestly say is: Go for it! The proof is in the pudding, as they say. More proof for you, of course, than it is for me. However, if your hermeneutic affords the means, then your life is consequentially required to reflect it. I am sincere in my wish that your doctrine manifests itself in what the old divines used to call "experimental Christianity." (The word experimental has changed over time. What they meant was that if our doctrines be true, then they are necessarily realizable in lives of submission to the Lord through His Word and by the power of the Holy Spirit.) Meanwhile, I'll just keep slogging along here in the old fashioned "already/not yet." In Him, Doc |
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2 | Can we live life without sinning? | Rom 6:12 | stjohn | 209319 | ||
Amen brother Doc, and never mind Wesley, Finney, and Parham managing the feat! That great man of God, Paul the Apostle, never attained it this side of the grass either! :-) For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. Romans 7:14-25 But then, we have the previous chaprer to contend with; don't we? :-) "The apostle having cleared the law from the charge of being the cause either of sin or death, and taken the blame to himself, proceeds to give an account of the struggle and combat he found in himself between the flesh and spirit; "that which I do, I allow not". That which he did was evil, since he allowed not of it; but this is to be understood not of any notorious crime committed by him, and repeated again and again; nor of a sinful course of life, for before his conversion he was not a profane man, but externally moral; and after his conversion, had his conversation in the world by the grace of God in righteousness and holiness; a vicious course of life being contrary to the grace of God implanted in him, and the doctrines of grace professed by him; but of internal lusts, the workings of corruptions in his heart, and which are real actions of the mind, together with the various frailties and infirmities of life: when that apostle says that what he did, ginwskw, "I know not": his meaning is, not that he was utterly ignorant of them, of their nature and operations; that he was insensible of their motions, and unconcerned about them; for his sense of them, and concern for them, are expressed by him in the strongest terms, "I know", "I find", "I see", "O wretched man" --John Gill Slogging along...:-) John |
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3 | Can we live life without sinning? | Rom 6:12 | Morant61 | 209322 | ||
Greetings John! The identity of the wretched man has always intrigued me. Those who believe that Paul is describing a believer, however, have a serious problem in that the description of the wretched man directly contradicts the description of believers in both chapters 6 and 8 of Romans. For instance, the wretched man is described in 7:14, 22, and 25 as being a 'slave to sin'. Yet, Rom. 6 says several times that believers are no longer slaves to sin. Indeed, Rom. 8:9 says, " You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ." Now, my question is simple, "Who can these two descriptions be reconciled if they both describe believers?" Your Brother in Christ, Tim Moran |
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4 | Can we live life without sinning? | Rom 6:12 | stjohn | 209396 | ||
Dear Tim: The law of God reveals to us the exceeding sinfulness of sin. Without the law of God we would not know sin. Our flesh i.e. the old nature, does not know God nor does it seek God. What we need to realize, as Christians is that by that law as elevated by Christ Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, is that sin, revealed by the law, equals every idol thought, every idol deed, and anything at all that separates us from God. Do we suppose that we can live as Christians without ever sinning? Are we so pious and perfect that we can say we do not sin? Can you? Can I? I cant! But I know we have an advocate in Jesus Christ, the only one who was and ever will be, the one and only one who was and is without sin. Who died and was raised so that we can come to Him when we fail and fall on our faces. Like the Red Heifer whose ashes were sprinkled on those who sinned along the wilderness trail though they could not practically set up the Tabernacle so to give sacrifice for that sin. We too have a Red Heifer in Jesus Christ, so we can be atoned for our sins as we walk that wilderness trail i.e. the world. I think brother Steve (humbledbyhisgrace) gave good argument for this with Scripture references in post 209379 I doubt I can do better so I respectfully refer you that post that you seem to disagree with anyway. I don’t know about anyone else but I fail all the time and have need for Jesus to clean me up from time to time and times are too numerous to count, to my shame, but I praise God for the right to be called a child of God and have the right to come to the Cross of Christ in my daily walk to have forgiveness for my sins and life everlasting. I believe Paul makes this abundantly clear in Romans 6-8. Amen God bless John |
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