Results 1 - 6 of 6
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Results from: Answered Bible Questions, Answers, Unanswered Bible Questions, Notes Ordered by Verse | ||||||
Results | Verse | Author | ID# | |||
1 | Are christians sinners or not? | Rom 3:23 | retxar | 69374 | ||
Greetings One, This is one of a the few verses I thought I would be discussing when I asked for scripture that referred to Christians as "sinners". I will discuss this with you later, as I am out the door right now. In the mean time, think about what 1John 3 means to you. thanks, retxar |
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2 | Are christians sinners or not? | Rom 3:23 | One | 69380 | ||
What does 1John 3 mean? I like the way Jesus taught so let me start with a story. When I was seventeen my dad got me a job where he worked. There was a man that worked with him who claimed to be filled with the Holy Spirit 24 hours a day. He would then have a problem and he would say my stupid (expletive) truck that dumb (more expletives) mechanic was suppose to fix it. The mechanic, whom I worked with all summer, said you really take you religion seriously I never hear you speaking bad or listening to company gossip. This person did not even consider himself religious yet they knew the difference between someone who lived it and someone who did not. Now was I perfect? No. Have I been made perfect? Yes. To me verses if looked at out of proper context they conflict. Compare these two: 1 John 3:6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. So how do we bring these passages to a resolution? Let do another story. Say you’re a police officer and you come to a car wreck. You ask, “What happened?” One person says this blue van came up from the left and hit the brown car in the middle of the intersection. You speak to another witness and they say the van came from the right. Who is right, both are it is all just a matter of perspective when you consider the people where standing on opposite sides of the street. So what does this have to do with the price of a steak in St Paul MN? I think one passage sees us from mans perspective the other from Gods. One of the teachers in college said that the idea of justification was, just as if I never had sin. So when we see our selves and others we see sinners. People who have sinned and who win sin again. However when God looks at us, it is as if we never have sinned because He sees the blood of His perfect Son covering our shortcomings. 1 John 1:7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. I hope this explains my line of thinking well enough, one. |
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3 | Are christians sinners or not? | Rom 3:23 | retxar | 69408 | ||
This is from your previous post: “1 Tim 1:15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.” “Notice he said this in the present tense.” Taken in context, we have to know that Paul is talking of his former self. He was speaking in humbleness and thankfulness that God had delivered him from the life he lived before and was now using him to minister the Gospel (1Ti 1:11-14). Otherwise, Paul would be saying that his current spiritual condition was even worse than the “sinners” he told us about in verse 9, because he said he was the chief. If he was the chief among those sinners he put himself in the same class with in verse 9, it had to before he meet Jesus, not after. In verse 16 it becomes apparent Paul is speaking of his former self when he says that God has already saved the chief of sinners, so there is absolutely no limit to Gods mercy. He also said it was God’s grace that had now made him a worthy example for others to follow. Paul was saying “Hey, if God can do this with the chief of sinners like me, you have to know that He has no limits!” Thanks for sharing your thoughts on 1John3! I like to use illustrations myself (notice my 1st post in this thread). One thing I would add would be that 1John3 also depicts the distinct difference between a Christian and a non-Christian. Please know, I have never took the position that Christians do not sin, only that the word “sinner”, in scripture, depicts someone in which sin describes their lifestyle, not someone who simple commits a sin. Do a word search on the words “sinner” and “sinners” and you will see what I mean! Gal 2:17, I admit, offers some argument against this. This is Paul’s amazing confrontation against Peter, Barnabas, and the other Jewish leaders who were trying to separate themselves from the Gentiles and trying to put some extra requirements of the Law on them. In Gal 2:17-18 Paul said, "But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.” Paul spoke this in anticipation that the “certain men of James” (vs12) would present argument to try to say that the everyday sins committed by Christians needed to be justified before God by more than just faith in Jesus. He presented the response ahead of time (kind of like I’m doing now!) in the way he thought the attack would be coming at him, so this does not carry the same connotation scripture usually gives to the word “sinner”, and not really the connotation that we give it today. Good talking with ya! retxar |
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4 | Are christians sinners or not? | Rom 3:23 | One | 69416 | ||
Luke 18:13 "But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner!' Luke 18:14 "I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted." To me it is a matter of humility. Paul says he is chief of all sinners because Paul considers his sin not as now and then but as a whole. I this would do all Christians well to see our sin as a whole and think of ourselves as chief of all sinners. When I was in ministry full time I saw to much of, "Well in not as bad as this person or that group." Notice Jesus say the man who beats his chest and says I am a sinner is forgiven. Peace, one. |
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5 | Are christians sinners or not? | Rom 3:23 | retxar | 69444 | ||
I understand what you are saying (that admitting one is a "sinner" is a matter of humility), and the example from scripture you gave is a good one. (One of the FEW other examples in scripture I knew would come up) However, more times than not the plea of "Christians are sinners" is just used as a smoke screen to justify a Christian who wants to live like the world. That old "Christians aren't perfect, only forgiven" excuse that does not bring glory to the grace that forgives, but only glorifies the weakness of the flesh. retxar |
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6 | Are christians sinners or not? | Rom 3:23 | One | 69446 | ||
I agree and I feel I john shows one can't live like the world and say, I am of God." | ||||||